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  1. #1
    Master of Fundamentalism
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    298

    Default About James A. Vineyard (Pastor Emeritus [well, pastor,] of WHBC)

    As told below by Happy Camper:

    Here is the background on TOOF.

    As JAV29 refers to the repeated brags made by James Allen Vineyard (JAV), pastor emeritus of WHBC, brags made on more than one occasion, from a pulpit in men's retreats, bragging about the number of times he sexually satisfied his wife in one night, so "Toof" has a meaning.

    Back in about 2004, it became public that JAV29 had been practicing a controversial method of counseling young women, asking them such questions as "do you get horny when you look at yourself naked in a mirror" or direct questions about their activities of sexually satisfying themself when alone.

    Tony Van Maneen, a pastor in Idaho, OBC grad, and son of an OBC/WHBC staff member wrote to JAV29, a private letter expressing concerns about these actions on JAV29's part and asking him not to continue such conduct. Tony was especially concerned, as one of his sisters was one of the counsellees who was so treated.

    In his notoriously genteel fashion, JAV29 wrote Tony a scathing, demeaning letter, wherein, amongst other things, he referred to Tony as a "pharisaical fart". Yes, he said that in writing, in a letter to a fellow pastor, one of his former "preacher boys" who had the gall to question the great leader of Oklahoma fundamentalism about the appropriateness of talking like that in front of young girls.

    The correspondence was made public and a public controversy arose.

    A packet with documentation was mailed out to many pastors. My pastor, a licensed professional counselor who has a Masters in Counseling from Liberty University and a PhD in Pastoral Counseling from another accredited University, received one and told me he thought JAV29 was an idiot and that a secular counselor using such techniques could risk losing his license and might even face criminal investigation for such conduct.

    A furor arose on the internet, especially on the old, original forum.

    JAV29's defenders called his technique "shock and awe" to warn young people away from their sin. Many said something to the effect.... "I don't approve of everything he does or says, but he is a man of God....yadda, yadda, yadda......"

    Those who dared criticize JAV29 were scathed publicly, privately, from the pulpit and on the forum. Tim Lee was accused of stirring the mess all up, as if he had caused it himself and was responsible.

    In the midst of this, one poster, a OKCPD officer, who was involved in criminally investigating sexual misconduct allegations, was falsely accused of making a threat against JAV29. JAV29 went after his badge, using connections with a relative on of one of his deacons who was a highly ranked official with another law enforcement agency to push the investigation. The officer was exonerated of this false allegation and continues to serve the citizens of Oklahoma City.

    The furor over the "dirty talk counseling" sessions made it to the local OKC TV media.

    JAV29 went on air with a reporterette for an interview. During this interview, to make a point, JAV29 removed his false teef on camera while talking to the female reporter.

    For a while this was posted on the stations website and you can watch. Do a websearch, it might still be available.

    After all this, enter then to the Forum the personality known as "FRanger".

    He continually addresses JAV29 as "Toof", referring to the incident with the reporter.

    Sometimes I refer to him in my posts as "Darf Toofless", taking FRanger's phrase as inspiration for my term.

    That should explain the background on the "Toof" comments by FRanger.

    HC
    __________________
    "Jesus would roll over in his grave, if he only knew."
    ---Dr. Braveheart, TmGd

  2. #2
    Master of Fundamentalism
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    298

    Default

    HC: JAV29's defenders called his technique "shock and awe" to warn young people away from their sin. Many said something to the effect.... "I don't approve of everything he does or says, but he is a man of God....yadda, yadda, yadda......"

    More like "shock and Aaaaawe [JAV]".

  3. #3
    Master of Fundamentalism
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    298

    Default

    More info about Jim Vineyard:

    http://www.koco.com/news/3299380/detail.html

  4. #4
    Master of Fundamentalism
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    434

    Default Now I'm M-a-a-d!!!!!!!

    I tried for months to get this picture out of my mind!

    ARGGGGHHH

  5. #5
    Master of Fundamentalism
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    298

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Floyd View Post
    I tried for months to get this picture out of my mind!

    ARGGGGHHH
    Like a bad dream, eh? Kinda makes your gums hurt too.

  6. #6
    Master of Fundamentalism
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    939

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Floyd View Post
    I tried for months to get this picture out of my mind!

    ARGGGGHHH
    I friend of mine, who worked in a prison induction center, where one of his primary tasks was strip searching inmates, use to say he had a job "that made him want to stick needles in his eyes".

    that pic definitely goes in that direction.

    At least we don't have to look at a pic of JAV29 in a "speed-doe"!!!!
    "Jesus would roll over in his grave, if he only knew."
    ---Dr. Braveheart, TmGd

  7. #7
    Master of Fundamentalism
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    434

    Default In 1985

    or maybe 1984 us wrestlers and the basketballer's got into several skirmishes and JAV decided it was time to break out the boxing gloves and so he rounded us all up and paired us up to box, I believe the first thing he did was to take out his teef and then ask any of us if we were "man" enough to take him on? Many of us wanted to jump in there especially those of us who were a foot taller and 50-60 lbs bigger.None of us dared though because of the ramifications that would follow if we had hurt the "manna gawd". Most of you know the events that happened after that but that was the first time I became aware of the "toofless" situation.

    Ivan may be able to add more to this if he was there?

    Off to revival

  8. #8
    Master of Fundamentalism
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Winter Haven, FL
    Posts
    751

    Default

    What I can add is that I recall hearing about it after the fact.
    Whatever Wrestler / BBall skirmish their was must have been only a very small handful.

    The only I remember hearing about was that night in the dorm, we were told that Chuck Cooley was daring Guy Fox to put on the gloves, because a BBaller couldn't hang w/ a wrestler.
    Cooley wore a terrible shiner for about ten days, as I recall.

    That is the only thing I ever heard about.
    My guess is JAV was challenging the wrestlers.
    He knew not to come and try to challenge / intimidate Bruce Foster's basketball players. But there was a control JAV would try to exert over wrestlers perhaps?

    Tony? What do you think?
    Ivan Lambert
    OBC 81-85
    WHBC 81-86

  9. #9
    Master of Fundamentalism
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    434

    Talking As I recall

    there were Guy Fox,Mike DeYoung,Franklin Forbes,Todd Steiner,Brian Rasmussen,Chief,Latrell Jones and I thought you but it may have been Keith Balsley? Bro.Vineyard called a bunch of us to the gym during chapel and then he matched us up according to our sizes. I don't remember if Bro.Foster was there or not? Guy did bust up Chuck Cooley then Claude Madle and Guy went at it really good I remember, Claude was tough as nails and he also took some long jabs from Guy but held his own. Also, Warren?(fellow in prison) was there. Maybe others it was along time ago. I fought against Latrell but we mostly ducked and threw wild punches. I think he left school a month or 2 after all of that as I remember? The wrestlers I think were all there, Stan Enloe,Joey Fowler, Randall Lister,Brian,myself,Eddie Trimble and a couple others age has blocked from my memory. It is the first time I remember JAV w/o his teeth as he was challenging us.

    I think also Tom Vineyard was there and perhaps it was all started because all of the "athletes" at OBC were dogging Tom every chance we had. I know I sure loved keeping him down a little longer or pinning him quickly especially when daddy was nearby watching

  10. #10
    Master of Fundamentalism
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Winter Haven, FL
    Posts
    751

    Default

    1. Can't say that all of those guys were present; I certainly know I was not.
    2. At no time was there a calling over to the gym during chapel. Absolutely not... I only knew about this AFTER the fact.
    3. Keith Balsley? Well if he was present then it had to be 1984; Keith graduated in May 1984 and departed that summer.
    4. I can tell you Bruce Foster was not present nor did he know about such foolishness until afterward. I can also be altogether certain that once he heard about it, he confronted JAV about it, and thus no BBallers were ever involved in this again.
    5. Latrell did not leave school a month or two later. Latrell went home for the summer and during the summer while telling a few he would return for his Jr. year, determined to stay out in CA.
    6. Know nothing about OBC "athletes" dogging Tom Vineyard. That had to be strictly a wrestler battle. We BBallers had no reason to dog Tom, he was not in our arena, so to speak, so there was not a bone of contention present w/ Tom Vineyard and BBallers. Remember back in those days OBC recruited guys to come to OBC on scholarship to play BBall. We were actually HS basketball players, where only a couple of wrestlers had any experience prior to coming to OBC. I have nothing bad to say about Tom regarding his attitude toward us in those days; it was respect for us athletically, actually.
    Ivan Lambert
    OBC 81-85
    WHBC 81-86

 

 

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