you may not like doug wilson but he is a brilliant man who knows how to communicate. you will enjoy reading anything he writes.
Reading the transcript of Wilson's debate with Hitchens I doubt very much that Harris will be "absolutely destroyed".
Harris' book was very poor value for money - $15 and I read it in three hours. Wilson's book is of a similar length, apparently, but it would cost me £25 to import it. No doubt it will be eventually published outside the US, so we await that momentous event.
Unsurprisingly as well, most of the reviews are good. But even the best of them are suspect because, once again, Wilson tells atheists what he thinks they think, and presents it as fact. Note that the analysis that follows is based upon customer reviews. It is possible that these reviewers have completely misunderstood Wilson, even while supporting him.
For example, from (supporting) reviews:
Quote:
Wilson clears this out by explaining that this is a "common misunderstanding of a standard Christian argument" and "the issue is not whether atheists are evil, but rather, given atheism, what possible definition can we find for evil."
If Wilson really says this, I can recommend him a good dictionary.
Quote:
This concept is often hard to understand for atheists because they tend to have an expectation towards revolutionary methods of changing of a society, perhaps being influenced by Marx and his followers in the area of social analysis.
erm....what? Hopefully Wilson doesn't actually say this.
Quote:
Mr. Wilson confronts Mr. Harris on why he should tell anyone what they "ought" to do given that atheists do not believe in absolute truth, nor can right or wrong be defined without a standard.
Atheists don't believe in absolute truth? Plenty of them do, plenty don't. But even if the reviewer is correct (which he isn't), doesn't this imply that a belief in absolute truth is, for Wilson, as good as its existence?
Quote:
Mr. Wilson agrees that Christians and non-Christians do bad things based on the concept of God, but if there is no God, these actions are merely preferences.
What non-Christian would do a bad thing based on the concept of God? Maybe there are a few, like Mohammed Atta. But does Wilson really infer that when a Christian does a bad thing it's his personal preference (forget original sin for a moment) and if he does a good thing it's all down to God.
Sadly, Wilson is preaching to the converted. Based on these (good) reviews he will be ignored by atheists. It would be better for him if he actually listened to what they said, instead of poisoning the well. At least Harris wrote with Christians in mind.
__________________ The only position that leaves me with no cognitive dissonance is atheism. It is not a creed. Death is certain, replacing both the siren-song of Paradise and the dread of Hell. Life on this earth, with all its mystery and beauty and pain, is then to be lived far more intensely: we stumble and get up, we are sad, confident, insecure, feel loneliness and joy and love. There is nothing more; but I want nothing more.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Last edited by Duncan Ferguson; 10-24-2009 at 06:20 AM.
No, I was clear that my opinion was based on favourable reviews. i.e. Note that the analysis that follows is based upon customer reviews. It is possible that these reviewers have completely misunderstood Wilson, even while supporting him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen
read the book Duncan, then form your opinion.
Indeed I will, when it goes on sale. Hopefully it won't be a disappointment. At least Wilson doesn't seem to beat up on Hitler.
__________________ The only position that leaves me with no cognitive dissonance is atheism. It is not a creed. Death is certain, replacing both the siren-song of Paradise and the dread of Hell. Life on this earth, with all its mystery and beauty and pain, is then to be lived far more intensely: we stumble and get up, we are sad, confident, insecure, feel loneliness and joy and love. There is nothing more; but I want nothing more.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Only when they say he was an atheist to prove a point. When you see that you know they don't want to know. You should know that, you've done it. You're doing it again now, but only you will look foolish by doing it.
__________________ The only position that leaves me with no cognitive dissonance is atheism. It is not a creed. Death is certain, replacing both the siren-song of Paradise and the dread of Hell. Life on this earth, with all its mystery and beauty and pain, is then to be lived far more intensely: we stumble and get up, we are sad, confident, insecure, feel loneliness and joy and love. There is nothing more; but I want nothing more.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Sadly, Wilson is preaching to the converted. Based on these (good) reviews he will be ignored by atheists. It would be better for him if he actually listened to what they said, instead of poisoning the well. At least Harris wrote with Christians in mind.
I haven't read this book, and do not intend to do so. I have no intention of wasting my time, nor of allowing even one of my pennies to line Doug Wilson's pockets.
I'm a Christian. Doug Wilson is a dangerous man. He in no way represents me or my beliefs. Indeed, he is more interested in pushing his political agenda ("dominionism") than he is in any representation of Christ.
I haven't read this book, and do not intend to do so. I have no intention of wasting my time, nor of allowing even one of my pennies to line Doug Wilson's pockets.
I'm a Christian. Doug Wilson is a dangerous man. He in no way represents me or my beliefs. Indeed, he is more interested in pushing his political agenda ("dominionism") than he is in any representation of Christ.
Really? I would never have guessed from the Hitchens debate that he was a follower of the old pariah Rushdoony. Quite a scary lot he's gotten in with.
His studies covered Scripture and the church fathers, but also led him further off the beaten track, to Christian Reconstructionism. Christian Reconstructionists are controversial, to put it mildly. The brainchild of Rousas John Rushdoony, an Armenian-American pastor and disciple of Presbyterian theologian Cornelius Van Til, Christian Reconstructionism's core is the application of every jot and tittle of Mosaic Law to modern Christian life, and a postmillennialism that borders on a call for outright theocracy.
Wilson says he rejects the Reconstructionists' political tactics and distances himself from the label, claiming that his view of Old Testament law is more subtle than theirs. But when I asked what he thought of the death penalty for homosexual acts suggested in Leviticus 20:13, he did not shy away from the theonomic hard line that disturbs many Christians. "You can't apply Scripture woodenly," he says. "You might exile some homosexuals, depending on the circumstances and the age of the victim. There are circumstances where I'd be in favor of execution for adultery. … I'm not proposing legislation. All I'm doing is refusing to apologize for certain parts of the Bible."
Still, eliz553, I doubt very much whether this book will reflect such thoroughly immoral views, targeted as it is at a mainstream Christian audience.
edit: Wilson also seems to look favourably on slavery:
Quote:
Wilson’s booklet Southern Slavery, As It Was, is an outrageous apologia for the enslavement of black Americans in the Old South. “Slavery as it existed in the South … was a relationship based upon mutual affection and confidence,” wrote Wilson and his co-author Wilkins. “There has never been a multiracial society which has existed with such mutual intimacy and harmony in the history of the world.”
__________________ The only position that leaves me with no cognitive dissonance is atheism. It is not a creed. Death is certain, replacing both the siren-song of Paradise and the dread of Hell. Life on this earth, with all its mystery and beauty and pain, is then to be lived far more intensely: we stumble and get up, we are sad, confident, insecure, feel loneliness and joy and love. There is nothing more; but I want nothing more.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Last edited by Duncan Ferguson; 10-24-2009 at 11:31 AM.
...Quite a scary lot he's gotten in with.
...Still, eliz553, I doubt very much whether this book will reflect such thoroughly immoral views, targeted as it is at a mainstream Christian audience...
Wilson is a master at deception. He is excellent at spouting "Christian" cliches that draw in the undiscerning, or simply some who are poorly- or under-educated. Even the internet pages related to his Vision Forum's "projects" are carefully constructed and worded so as to obscure true intent. His intent with this book may be to make money, or it could be increasing his support from the more mainstream Christian community.
Try pulling information on Vision Forum's New Zealand project (under the "leadership" of a Wilson cohort named Botkin).
BTW Just consider me one who highly values my freedoms, and has no intention of giving them away.
Only when they say he was an atheist to prove a point. When you see that you know they don't want to know. You should know that, you've done it. You're doing it again now, but only you will look foolish by doing it.
I have no idea what you just said.
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Doug Wilson absolutely destroys Sam Harris
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