The fact is that the Bible study on criticism that Jack Schaap gave - "8 Reasons I Am Not a Critic" (I think it was 8, could have been some other number, can't remember for sure) - could just as easily been given verbatim by Jack Hyles, Wendel Evans or Darrell Moore circa 1995. I even thought as much sitting in the auditorium when Jack Schaap began his introduction. It was stock HAC chapel material from any era you want to pick. This Bible study was completely unremarkable regarding its content and delivery.
You must be corrected by me. Barfing up stuff about the chapel in Hyles' day is subterfuge.
I'm talking about Hyles' pulpit, A.M and P.M sermons (not a lectern somewhere else that you know about).
Did Hyles ever preach a sermon about "let's all not criticise and let's all get along?" I've heard hundreds and never heard one.
Yet, Schaap has preached on that theme numerous times this year. It's a definate drift away from the Hyles Model. He's migrating toward a Rick Warren model.
Celebrate it if you want, but to deny it makes you look insincere. True fundyism doesn't welcome it.
Yet, Schaap has preached on that theme numerous times this year. It's a definate drift away from the Hyles Model. He's migrating toward a Rick Warren model.
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~ Dan
Real Christianity should be identified by its production of spiritual fruit*, not religious nuts.
*love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control
You must be corrected by me. Barfing up stuff about the chapel in Hyles' day is subterfuge.
I'm talking about Hyles' pulpit, A.M and P.M sermons (not a lectern somewhere else that you know about).
Did Hyles ever preach a sermon about "let's all not criticise and let's all get along?" I've heard hundreds and never heard one.
Yet, Schaap has preached on that theme numerous times this year. It's a definate drift away from the Hyles Model. He's migrating toward a Rick Warren model.
Celebrate it if you want, but to deny it makes you look insincere. True fundyism doesn't welcome it.
GG, you and I disagree a lot of the time, but I have to agree with some of what you are posting here. When Dr. Schaap became pastor of FBCH, he tried to mend relationships with some with whom Dr. Hyles had split (i.e. CLA, Ron Hamilton, etc). I'm not saying this was wrong, but it is definitely a different approach than Dr. Hyles.
With the can of worms Dr. Schaap opened with his KJV comments, he may need some of these "new" friends down the road.
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"Butter has no place on a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, you moron. Butter has no place on most sandwiches!" Unknown Hacker after receiving his first HAC sack lunch
You must be corrected by me. Barfing up stuff about the chapel in Hyles' day is subterfuge.
I'm talking about Hyles' pulpit, A.M and P.M sermons (not a lectern somewhere else that you know about).
Did Hyles ever preach a sermon about "let's all not criticise and let's all get along?" I've heard hundreds and never heard one.
Yet, Schaap has preached on that theme numerous times this year. It's a definate drift away from the Hyles Model. He's migrating toward a Rick Warren model.
Celebrate it if you want, but to deny it makes you look insincere. True fundyism doesn't welcome it.
Could you barf up a Hyles quote that contradicts what Jack Schaap said? No? Okay, thanks.
What does it matter where the sermon was preached? That's all the more irrelevant since this one was a random Wednesday Bible study not part of any series. It doesn't get much more obscure than that. Unlike a college chapel sermon you can't even download it for free. How does that not qualify as obscure?
You get to prove the change since it's your assertion. Going back to your earlier stint here you have always decried a grand philosophical change you want to see between Hyles and Schaap. Prove it.
Here's some homework: see if you and Google can identify the author of these quotes. Once that task has been completed, decide whether these were whispered in some dark corner or proclaimed to all who would listen?
Quote:
2. Each asset has a liability, and each liability has an asset. In other words, with the asset of purity, often comes the liability of Phariseeism. With the asset of friendliness often comes the liability of compromise. With the asset of leadership often comes the liability of pride. This philosophy levels each of us with his neighbor. It eliminates pride. A characteristic which is good about us carries with it the temptation for something bad. Negatively, a bad characteristic often carries a tendency toward an asset. One who is stubborn may develop conviction. One who is proud may have the asset of leadership. One who is guilty of Phariseeism may carry with him the asset of purity. Seeing such equality in the human race will avoid over-exaltation and excessive criticism of one's fellow man.
If the above be consistently true, and perhaps it is not, and if we love people because of what they are, we will find ourselves loving all people, for all have in them what all others have in them.
3. If we then love one person more than the other, the love is given to us by God. This is a great thought. If you have a friend who lives by this philosophy and loves you more than he does others, it is because God have him that love. Think of the security involved. It is not generated, by His grace, and, consequently, will not change.
Think what such a philosophy does for one: It eliminates criticism in this life. It encourages the impure to realize that even the pure possess impurity. Remember that no temptations take us but such as are common to man. This theory will also humble the pure, for the pure will find in himself liabilities and temptations that will make him more careful to undergird himself against Satan's wiles.
This also offers real humility and meekness. It makes one think of himself as no better or worse than anyone else. It will help to eliminate both inferiority and superiority complexes.
If each of us will examine his assets, he will no doubt find the temptations that each asset carries. This will drive each of us to more dependence upon God and His help and strength.
As one grows in this grace and in all Christian graces he will find himself being more and more alone in society. Someone has said there is a fine line of distinction between a genius and a moron. This appears to be so because each is about the same distance from society or from the masses. The truth, however, is that the only similarity a genius and a moron have is their distance from the average. They are really on the opposite ends of the pole. The same thing is true concerning true love and lust. Love and lust look alike only because the masses would be the same distance from both. Love and lust are on the opposite ends of the pole, but since we interpret everything according to what we think, we associate the two together because they are both the same distance from the masses.
The more we become like Christ, the farther we will travel from Mr. Average. Mr. Average is the one who gives us our reputation for being a good person. The one who grows the most in grace, the one who loves the most, the one who sacrifices the most, the one who gives the most will probably be looked upon by society as being as obnoxious as the one at the other end of the line. Hence, the one who is Christlike will not appear to be Christlike to the world. In contrast, one who appears to be Christlike, no doubt, has missed Christlikeness.
Let each of us realize that the weaknesses of his neighbor are found in some degree in ourselves. Hence, because what is found in all of us is in the rest of us, it behooves none of us to be critical, for in the final analysis we are all depraved creatures with common temptations and common weaknesses. In criticizing our neighbor, we are criticizing ourselves, for we have a common origin.
Quote:
6. The parent who is wise will build in his child a confidence in his pastor. This is so important!
I am thinking now of a family in our church. They are good people. They are faithful people, but they developed a little habit of complaining about the pastor. They would drop little bits of criticism around the supper table. They did not mean to be critical and certainly not hurtful, but the children soaked it up until they began to lose confidence in the pastor. The girl became a teenager. She was drifting away from God and needed her pastor desperately; in fact, I was the only person who could have helped her. (This was generally agreed.) She had, however, heard her parents criticize her pastor so much that she would not come to him for counsel. The criticisms were not of a serious nature and the truth is, the parents are for the pastor and behind his program. They simply would speak carelessly that his sermons were too long, the invitation song was sung too fast, his tie was too loud, etc. Though they meant nothing by it, the daughter thought they did, and her life has been ruined because the parents did not build her confidence in the pastor.
Quote:
Everything reproduces itself. Animals reproduce animals, plants reproduce plants, human beings reproduce human beings, and attributes reproduce attributes. If a pastor would have people who love, he must love, for it is "after his kind." If a pastor would have people who are not critical, he must not be critical of other preachers, for it is "after his kind." If a pastor wants people who sacrifice and give, he must sacrifice and give, for it is "after his kind." The great need of America, the great need of our churches, the great need of our nation, is leadership. Proper leadership stimulates proper "fellowship."
Dr. Lee Roberson has said for years, "Everything rises and falls on leadership." This is so true. Leaders who criticize followers will have followers who criticize the leader. Many a pastor has suffered heartache in his church simply because he was critical of other pastors. If a pastor would have soul winning people, he must be a soul winner. If a pastor would have warmhearted people, he must be warmhearted. The proper kind of leadership will reflect itself in the followers very shortly. It is "after his kind." Optimism begets optimism and pessimism begets pessimism Enthusiasm begets enthusiasm and lethargy begets lethargy. Generosity begets generosity and stinginess begets stinginess. Love begets love and hate begets hate. Success begets success and failure begets failure. Everything reproduces "after his kind."
...
Let not the pastor criticize his deacons, for it is "after his kind." Let not the pastor be critical of his people, for it is "after his kind." Let not the leader slander the followers, for it is "after his kind."
Quote:
I need not criticize you, for you are me and I am you. We are of the same body. When I criticize you, I criticize myself. When I tear you down, I tear down myself. We are in the same body; we are to do the same things. Let us suppose, for example, that I can do ten times as much as you can. If I tear down ten people like you, then I have rendered myself ineffective. For my sake I must not tear you down; for your sake, please do not tear me down. We are of the same body; we need each other. Many people in one day can tear down someone with more responsibility and influence and can do more harm in one day to the cause of Christ than the good they can do in a lifetime. The leader needs the follower. If he criticizes him and tears him down, soon his leadership is no longer effective. The follower needs the leader; in fact, we all need each other. Because I need you I must pray for you. I must not criticize you. I must love you. I must build you up. I must edify you, for you are me and I am you and we need each other.
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likeuntohim - my name is my license to post
Hey old man, you didn't forget where you put your notes for this sermon, did you? Does it not work as well for you when you don't get to clip and edit to suit your prejudices? Provide us with a time code so we can find what it was that caused you to make your accusations. You didn't just make that up, did you?
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likeuntohim - my name is my license to post
Other Christian Schools
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Other just about everything else
He's flip flopping on Hyles' righteous and truly fundamental ways big time.
I hope you kool-aiders have your dosage ready.
PS: There isn't much of anything to clip out of it because its one big long Rodney King "can't we all get along."
*bump*
Hey old man, I'm not asking you to take me to raise. I just want a couple of time codes so I can here Jack Schaap depart from the faith with my own ears. It's right there in the sermon so it shouldn't be that hard to post a few numbers. Right?
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likeuntohim - my name is my license to post
I just want a couple of time codes so I can here Jack Schaap depart from the faith with my own ears. It's right there in the sermon so it shouldn't be that hard to post a few numbers. Right?
Congrats on being the new village (forum) idiot.
Your guy Schaap has departed from preaching like this:
Your guy Schaap has departed from preaching like this:
So does this mean you can't find even 5 seconds from Jack Schaap's sermon to support your assertions? Thought so.
Nothing would please me more than to measure my forum credibility against yours. Tell me, old man, of all the threads you've started based on your own thoughts which have NOT gone down in flames? You got shot at from all sides upstairs last week. Even shiloh has his supporters.
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likeuntohim - my name is my license to post
So does this mean you can't find even 5 seconds from Jack Schaap's sermon to support your assertions? Thought so.
Nothing would please me more than to measure my forum credibility against yours. Tell me, old man, of all the threads you've started based on your own thoughts which have NOT gone down in flames? You got shot at from all sides upstairs last week. Even shiloh has his supporters.
So does this mean you can't get Schaap to preach like Hyles did in the clip?
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