Thread: Criticism of FBCH and HAC

Originally Posted by gonebutnotforgotten

while wearing a pink shirt on sunday at shakees

You guys are visionaries.

Because hindsight is 20/20 I can tell you that I wouldn't down play the previous Pastor's ministry & brag on the church growth since my arrival, theme my ministry on sex in almost every sermon, associate the Lord's Supper with Sex, Question Bible Inspiration (why even open that can of worms?) Hyles-Anderson College*-* Doctrinal Statement ,preach from historical narratives instead of Bible, (that whole Mary & Joseph were old & broken down Christmas sermon was a bad idea) white gloving the ladies dorms is perverted. It seems everytime Schaap gets a hairbrained idea (Schaapology) he should stay on the old paths instead of these silly new ideas (house churches included) Refine what you have but don't keep trying to reinvent the wheel. IFB's by & large are attracted to the old time religion, not new fangled foolishness, Jack Schaap should know this!

Originally Posted by wtyson

So I hear so much criticism of Jack Schaap and FBCH/HAC and I often wonder how it is so easy to criticize when you are not the one who has the responsibility of the ministry.

My question is this...

If you were the pastor of FBCH and president of HAC what would you do to lead the ministry there?

I think it is simple to pick out the things we all would disagree with...the comments made...decisions we disagree with...unwise statements and even areas of doctrinal disagreement.

That being said...I think he has challenged FBCH in the area of world missions, he has created a blue print of effectly working with the local government to help reach those who are the most challenging in our society and I believe his emphasis on church planting is one that challenges us all to consider.

So, you are the pastor and leader now...what steps would you take? What would you do with the great commission, ministries of the church, the college, missions, etc....

I ask because it is so easy to point out what others are doing wrong without putting your foot in the others shoes...

Originally Posted by wtyson

So I hear so much criticism of Jack Schaap and FBCH/HAC and I often wonder how it is so easy to criticize when you are not the one who has the responsibility of the ministry.

My question is this...

If you were the pastor of FBCH and president of HAC what would you do to lead the ministry there?

I think it is simple to pick out the things we all would disagree with...the comments made...decisions we disagree with...unwise statements and even areas of doctrinal disagreement.

That being said...I think he has challenged FBCH in the area of world missions, he has created a blue print of effectly working with the local government to help reach those who are the most challenging in our society and I believe his emphasis on church planting is one that challenges us all to consider.

So, you are the pastor and leader now...what steps would you take? What would you do with the great commission, ministries of the church, the college, missions, etc....

I ask because it is so easy to point out what others are doing wrong without putting your foot in the others shoes...

The first thing I would do, would be renovate the new auditorium by doing the following:
*I would sell every seat in the balcony, and turn the space into a museum in honor of Jack Hyles.
*I would personally tear down and burn the stupid charismatic screens in the front of the auditorium. We won't need them because there isn't a balcony anymore.

As far as the ministries of the church, I would bus in every single chapel "church" that meets on Saturdays to the Jack Hyles Memorial auditorium and have a one hour service with children's church on FBCH property. Buses will run on Sunday and meet in their normal places.

I would make South Point and any other ministry similar to it, independent, and send a HAC grad to pastor it.

I would tell all the "house churches" that they need to drag their butt to the Old Church Downtown if they want to be ministered to.

As far as Missions, I would stop supporting any missionary that is NOT an HAC grad. I would support HAC grads ONLY, and I would give them as close to 100% full support as possible. I would count them in my numbers, and I could legitimately do so. I would make Team Missions the ONLY WAY and would have Teams everywhere we could afford them according to the Faith Promise budget.

I would never again have a national conference of any kind. If you want to learn from FBCH, come join it, or stay out of our business.

As for Hyles-Anderson College, I would stop the ridiculous tour groups...waste of money & stupid. Let the Holy Spirit draw people to the ministry, not a group of blondes. Oh, the Jericho program, see ya!

I would start a debt retirement program to get rid of the millions and millions of debt.

As pastor, I would preach "through the Bible" for as long as it takes to do so, chapter by chapter, line upon line....Sunday morning, Sunday night, and Wednesday night.

Announcements.....you have a bulletin, read it! Announcement time will be replaced by 30 minutes of prayer in each service.

Many more ideas..........not enough time to write them.

Originally Posted by BALAAM

I would immediately resign and go find a smaller and lesser known work and do my best to lead them in the direction I think is right.

I would NOT go to a church with a lot of New Evangelical roots and try to "straighten them out".
I would NOT go to a church with a very strong KJB stance and try to straighten them out.
I would NOT continually point to myself as the "Man of God" and tell people to follow me and get on board with me and get on the same page as me as the same as following God.
I would NOT continually have sexually related themes in my sermons.
I would NOT continually call people who disagreed with me 'slobs, morons,losers, etc.'
I would NOT commission staff members to start churches as employees and call them churches unless I was willing to let them go and be pastors.
I would NOT have employees start churches all over the globe that are under my control and call myself "Independent Baptist".
I would NOT have church employees and church missionaries go overseas to countries that won't allow missionaries and have them start language schools and philosophical schools under the guise of missions. (Haven't come to a firm conclusion on this but it bothers me.)

Last Sunday night bro Schaap said that he is not a fundamentalist. He said he believes in the fundamentals but did not want to be labeled. He said "I am a believer". Now that is fine but it is not fine to take over a church that was at one time looked at as the bastion of baptist fundamentalism and in one generation make it into a non-denominational church. He is very uncomfortable with the term. Now once again, I am not against that and I do not believe for one instant that ifb people hold the corner on truth or correctness but it is disingenuous to take a group of people who were told one thing for 40 years and tell them that for the past 40 years the former "man of God" was not really all that and this is the proper path.

Now you don't and won't hear much of this but there are many people who have been at fbch for a long time who wish they were young enough to leave and find something else. And js couldn't care less because he is looking for a 'new' generation. IMHO

I always think he should have pastored his home church back when they asked him. He could have shown back up here and preached conferences and everyone would have loved him. He didn't go because of that crazy veto thing from Jack Hyles.

He never was a fundamentalist in the crazy way like Neal, Gray or the rest of that crowd.

By the way how is the Youth Revival going with him preaching it? (he seems to be trying to relive his past with south point, a new office and time at the college and now the youth revival)