We are discussing a recent letter that we graduates of GSBC received this week over on

http://fundamentallychanged.wordpres...ing-redefined/

Anyone care to join in?

OK I’ll take a stab. There are few men in America like Bro. Trieber, namely a man that for decades has crisscrossed this nation of ours preaching at hundreds churches and counseling a countless amount of preachers. Clearly he has seen and is experiencing a change in fundamentalism that few can see. What Bro. Trieber is so concerned about is no different than what occurred to Charles Spurgeon during the “Down Grade Controversy”. The similarity is uncanny. For an overview of what was the ultimate cause of Spurgeon’s premature death click here

Now my opinion about his concern in his letter I can only extrapolate from what he has said over the last 20 or so years. I don’t think that the content of the messages from preachers is what he is referring to as a “redefinition” of fundamentalism. The messages, for most part, are biblically sound and doctrinally correct, so I don’t think it is the content of the messages. However, he has made comments that some MEMBERS would rather have a theologian than a preacher as their pastor. I don’t understand why we can’t have both. There really should be a “universally accepted definition” of fundamentalism that all can agree on since how can you “redefine” something that you haven’t a clue what the definition is in the first place!!

In a broad sense modern fundamentalism is a philosophy, practice, lifestyle and world view. It is in this area where Bro. Trieber is troubled. For example, the philosophy and practice of church music. He sees around the country a paradigm shift in church music that if the lyrics were absent it would be little different from the music that the unconverted enjoy. It doesn’t stop with the “song choice” it is also musical instruments on the platform that one would not normally associate with “church music” like electric guitars and full drum sets with cymbals. The issue is compounded by screens instead of hymnals. Personally I like the use of screens for sermon outlines and lyrics for perhaps specials that are sung (not congregational songs). Now I suppose words AND the music could be projected onto the screens just as easy as holding a hymnal with notes and lyrics. Screens for me are no big issue but Bro. Trieber sees that the introduction of screens to a church CAN (not always) lead to a “Down Grade” into liberalism then apostasy and then closure of the church. He has seen it happen over and over again. We haven’t seen it, HE HAS.

“User Friendly” has taken on a negative connotation in fundamentalism, when it shouldn’t. Since Jesus said his burden is light and his yoke is easy, sounds pretty user friendly to me. The term should be defined for sure. I LIKE the using it myself. It is a term unconverted people can relate to and can be used when witnessing with an unbeliever, since all other religions require a strict adherence to some religious “works”. Christianity doesn’t. Even as secular term “user friendly” does equate to effort of some kind since you have to exert some effort to “use” something. Jesus didn’t say Christianity was without effort he said it was “light” and “easy” or in modern lingo “user friendly”. Jesus is indeed a friend to sinners.

I think Bro. Trieber uses the term to mean “casual”, “acceptable to unbelievers”, “non-convicting” , “feel good and positive” “being relative to society”. Baptist (independent fundamental ones) churches are now “getting lax” in clothing standards for example. Preachers dressing more “business” casual (i.e. no tie), foregoing Sunday Night and/or mid-week services, utilizing business strategies of the secular world to “market” the church. Dropping Baptist all together all in the name of being “friendlier” to the unconverted. Changing the service times on Super Bowl Sunday. Messages eventually get so watered down that the end result is you “feel good” about God and yourself and people just “come as you are and go as you came” with little to no change in their life or heart.

These changes that result in the death knell of a once vibrant and growing church starts as one small step at a time (there are others than what I noted here for sure)and Bro. Trieber has seen what these tell-tale steps are and is ringing the warning bell, is anyone listening?? When Spurgeon died of gout, he was almost friendless, virtually all forsook him because of the Down Grade Controversy, even his own brother. If we don't see a revival of God's people in this country and the Lord tarry's I wouldn't be surprised that Jack Trieber will die virtually alone too, with few around him, just as Spurgeon did.

Let's not slumber brethren........

Trieber will have a voice when he stops graduating 3 preachers a year.

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Bobby,

So you mean if he graduates 0, he will have more of a voice?

No, 3 is less than 0.

You must be a GSBC grad or a member of his church.

Don't you like him driving around in his $80,000.00 economy car?

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Well you said if he stops graduating 3, well if he stops, then it will be 0 graduates. Yes I'm a member, pretty clear in my post, ya think? $80K economy car? What? His car is provided to him by the church voted on by the Deacons that we voted in, it is NOT $80K, it is an Acura RL, hardly $80K, the car that he does pay for, his wife's whip, is a mid-sized SUV.

What does his ride have to do with the demise of fundamentalism?

This is why this forum is hardly the place for a real serious discussion...there's too many trolls. Thanks for the answer. I haven't been at NVBC as a member in almost 8 years although I will semi-frequently drop by. So is Pastor Trieber actually being invited to preach by fundamental churches who use electric guitars and drum sets? I kinda doubt that he'd even accept the invitation.

Your comment about churches rather having theologians than preachers...uh, I had to laugh out loud a little....if a preacher isn't a theologian, then what is he preaching and what is preaching in that case? Something like this:

The Downgrade controversy was over doctrine. What you seem to be explaining here is about church practices not church doctrine. So, do bad practices lead to bad doctrine? I would say it's the other way around: bad doctrine and theology leads to bad practice.

Couldn't agree with you more

Sorry Marley, but I also don't understand your point. Are you trying to say Trieber doesn't have a voice because his Bible College only graduates 3 preachers a year? So he would have more of a voice if GSBC had more graduates? Wouldn't the goal be to have quality over quanity, or does this fall under the bus attendance category?

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Ichy,

Glad I wasn't the only one confused with the Rastafarian Bob Marley mon

Been awhile since you made a post, Ichy