The Fighting Fundamental Forums - Bible Versions http://www.fundamentalforums.com/ en Thu, 09 Sep 2010 07:39:55 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.fundamentalforums.com/images/misc/rss.jpg The Fighting Fundamental Forums - Bible Versions http://www.fundamentalforums.com/ From the ignorant to the so-called wise.... http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/88521-from-the-ignorant-to-the-so-called-wise-new-post.html Sun, 05 Sep 2010 16:05:15 GMT Psa 119:69 The proud have forged a lie against me: but I will keep thy precepts with my whole heart. Psa 57:7 My heart is fixed, O God, my... Psa 119:69 The proud have forged a lie against me: but I will keep thy precepts with my whole heart.

Psa 57:7 My heart is fixed, O God, my heart is fixed: I will sing and give praise.


In JESUS NAME, AMEN ]]> Bible Versions iSAVEDbyGRACEi http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/88521-from-the-ignorant-to-the-so-called-wise.html What would you change http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/88464-what-would-you-change-new-post.html Fri, 03 Sep 2010 18:05:59 GMT As if we don't have enough to argue about.... :)

If you could change the coarse of history concerning the transmitting of the Scriptures throughout history.... What would you change...

Just pick one point that you think would be the most influential for the better...

( I realize none of the resident KJVOist will approve but..... hey... we probabily talk to them too much as it is...)

My point would be when Jerome was successful in placing more emphasis on the Hebrew text to the detriment of the Greek OT.

What do you think? ]]> Bible Versions christundivided http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/88464-what-would-you-change.html The Originals were Digitally Preserved! http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/88341-the-originals-were-digitally-preserved-new-post.html Tue, 31 Aug 2010 20:43:33 GMT Yep! Now we have a sculpture of a scribe who preserved the originals on a PC back in Greece! Now to find the harddrive! Image:... Yep! Now we have a sculpture of a scribe who preserved the originals on a PC back in Greece! Now to find the harddrive!

]]> Bible Versions freesundayschoollessons http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/88341-the-originals-were-digitally-preserved.html Study Bible, which do you use? http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/88122-study-bible-which-do-you-use-new-post.html Thu, 26 Aug 2010 04:26:17 GMT It's amazing how many there are! If you have one, which do you use? Is there any particular one you wouldn't use, and why? ]]> Bible Versions LisaAnne http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/88122-study-bible-which-do-you-use.html <![CDATA[Greek & Hebrew... the effect they have]]> http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/87971-greek-and-hebrew-the-effect-they-have-new-post.html Sat, 21 Aug 2010 00:07:08 GMT Reading from the Greek and Hebrew Bibles, you gain an appreciation for the depth and precision of expression. For some reason, these images brought... Reading from the Greek and Hebrew Bibles, you gain an appreciation for the depth and precision of expression. For some reason, these images brought that to my mind.

These are statues in Greece which are illuminated with ultraviolet light to reveal their original state. Reading an English version is like the statue on the left. It is obviously beautiful in its own right. However, the original langues is like the one on the right. It is the same but has far more depth...



]]> Bible Versions freesundayschoollessons http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/87971-greek-and-hebrew-the-effect-they-have.html Spirit World Sins http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/87934-spirit-world-sins-new-post.html Thu, 19 Aug 2010 20:56:06 GMT The short trip from FUNDAMENTALISM to NEW AGEism: The fundamentals of traditional fundamentalism: 1. the inspiration and infallibility of... The short trip from FUNDAMENTALISM to NEW AGEism:

The fundamentals of traditional fundamentalism:

1. the inspiration and infallibility of scripture
2. the deity of Christ (including His virgin birth)
3. the substitutionary atonement of Christ's death
4. the literal resurrection of Christ from the dead
5. the literal return of Christ in the Second Advent

Note the first one is about the Written Word of God,
the Holy Bible (AKA: Holy Scripture).
Note that #2 to #5 (the last four) are about
the Living Word of God, Messiah Jesus.
Notice that a person (even if He is a spiritual person)
is NOT the same as a Book (even if it is the
best book in the world).

To equate the Written Word of God and the Living
Word of God is a step away from the Fundamentals
of Christianity. To equate the Written Word of God
and the Living Word of God is a step toward
a NEW AGE belief.

The next step toward the NEW AGE belief concerning
the Holy Scripture is to use the Divine Bible
(miss-named third person of the Holy Trinity) as a divination device
and a fortune telling tool: i.e. using
some Bible Code on the King James Version 1769
Edition ONLY.

BTW, the NEW AGE is just the OLD IMORALITY/Paganism

The Bible Codes are a direct violation of the ETERNAL
LAW OF GOD as shown in Deutermony 18:10-12
(note that for clarity I use, as my signature suggests, more than one translation)

Sources
Deuter 18:10-12 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition)
Deuter 18:10-12 (KJV1611 Edition):
Deuter 18:10-12 (HCSB = Christian Standard Bible /Holman, 2003/ )

Geneva 10A. that vseth witchcraft,
KJV1611 10A. that vseth diuination,
HCSB 10A. practice divination,

Geneva 10B. or a regarder of times,
KJV1611 10B. or an obseruer of times,
HCSB 10B. tell fortunes,

Geneva 10C. or a marker of the flying of foules,
KJV1611 10C. or an inchanter,
HCSB 10C. interpret omens,

Geneva 10D. or a sorcerer,
KJV1611 10D. or a witch,
HCSB 10D. practice sorcery,

Geneva 11A. Or a charmer,
KJV1611 11A. Or a charmer,
HCSB 11A. cast spells,

Geneva 11B. or that counselleth with spirits,
KJV1611 11B. or a consulter with familiar spirits,
HCSB 11B. or (consult) a familiar spirit,

Geneva 11C. or a soothsaier,
KJV1611 11C. or a wyzard,
HCSB 11C. consult a medium

Geneva 11D. or that asketh counsel at ye dead.
KJV1611 11D. or a Necromancer.
HCSB 11D. or inquire of the dead.
---------------------------

What is Deut 18:10-12 speaking of? What offence do these things make before God? IMHO they are attempts by humans to deal with the Forces of the Universe and GO AROUND God (thus IGNORING God).
---------------------------

in Dictionary.com this is the definition of SORCERY:
the art, practices, or spells of a person who is supposed to exercise supernatural powers through the aid of evil spirits; black magic; witchery (this term dates from 1259-1300).

in Dictionary.com this is the definition of DIVINATION:
the practice of attempting to foretell future events or discover hidden knowledge by occult or supernatural means. (this term dates from 1350-1400) ]]> Bible Versions 1611ED http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/87934-spirit-world-sins.html KJV-NIV VERSE COMPARISONS -- Part 1 http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/87909-kjv-niv-verse-comparisons-part-1-a-new-post.html Thu, 19 Aug 2010 05:18:43 GMT KJV-NIV VERSE COMPARISONS
Information gathered from "If the Foundations be Destroyed" by Chick Salliby

REDEMPTION

(1)

(Luke 9:56)

(KJV) "For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village."

(NIV) "and they went to another village."

(2)

(Matt. 18:11)

(KJV) "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost."

(NIV) (whole verse omitted)

(3)

(Matt. 9:13)

(KJV) "...I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

(NIV) "...I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

(4)

(Acts 8:37)

(KJV) "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

(NIV) (whole verse omitted)

(5)

(Acts 9:5,6)

(KJV) "...the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city....."

(NIV) "...I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting, he replied. Now get up and go into the city....

(6)

(Col. 1:14)

(KJV) "In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:"

(NIV) "in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins."

(7)

(Gal. 6:15)

(KJV) "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature."

(NIV) "Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation."

(8)

(Gal. 4:7)

(KJV) "...thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ."

(NIV) "...you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir."

(9)

(Gal. 3:17)

(KJV) "...the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ....."

(NIV) "...the covenant previously established by God"

(10)

(1 Cor. 9:18)

Paul said that he would-

(KJV) "...make the gospel of Christ without charge...."

(NIV) "...offer it free of charge...."

(11)

(Rom 1:16)

(KJV) "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ...."

(NIV) "I am not ashamed of the gospel...."

(12)

(John 6:47)

(KJV) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life."

(NIV) "I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life."

(13)

(1 Pet. 4:1)

(KJV) "Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh...."

(NIV) "Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body...."

(14)

(1 Cor. 5:7)

(KJV) "Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:...."

(NIV) "For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed...."

(15)

(1 John 5:13)

(KJV) "...and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

(NIV) (omitted)

(16)

(Eph. 4:6)

By the ommision of one word the NIV lends credibility to the heresy that all men are saved.

(KJV) "One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."

(NIV) "one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all."

(17)

(Rev. 21:24)

(KJV) "And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it...."

(NIV) "The nations will walk by its light...."

(18)

(Acts 28:29)

(KJV) "And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves."

(NIV) (whole verse omitted)


CHRIST'S ETERNAL EXISTENCE

(19)

(Mic. 5:2)

(KJV) "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, [from everlasting]."

(NIV) "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, [from ancient times]."


CHRIST'S DEITY

(20)

(1 Tim. 3:16)

By the changing of one word a verse can be rendered ineffective in declaring the deity of Christ.

(KJV) "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: [God] was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

(NIV) "Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: [He] appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory."

(21)

(Phil. 2:5,6)

(KJV) "...Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, [thought it not robbery to be equal with God]:"

(NIV) "...Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, [did not consider equality with God something to be grasped],"

(22)

(Rev. 1:8-13)

(KJV) "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. {9} I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. {10} I...heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, {11} Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book...." {12} And I turned to see...And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; {13} And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto [the Son of man]...."

(NIV) "(Rev 1:8-13 NIV) "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." {9} I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. {10} ....I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, {11} which said: "Write on a scroll what you see...." {12} I turned around to see ...And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, {13} and among the lampstands was someone "like [a son of man]...."

(23)

(1 John 5:7,8)

(KJV) "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. {8} And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

(NIV) "For there are three that testify: {8} the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement."

(24)

(1 Pet. 3:15)

(KJV) "But sanctify the [Lord God] in your hearts...."

(NIV) "But in your hearts set apart [Christ as Lord]."

(25)

(Jude 25)

(KJV) "To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and for ever. Amen."

(Notice the additional words that are added in the NIV. These are underlined)

(NIV) "to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, [through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages], now and forevermore! Amen."

(26)

(Acts 15:18)

(KJV) "Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world."

(NIV) "that have been known for ages." (This is the entire verse)




http://www.searchthescriptures.com/n...oundations.htm ]]> Bible Versions Lisa Ruby http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/87909-kjv-niv-verse-comparisons-part-1-a.html Hey DocCas... please explain your moniker! http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/87821-hey-doccas-please-explain-your-moniker-new-post.html Mon, 16 Aug 2010 23:14:56 GMT So... what does it mean? So... what does it mean? ]]> Bible Versions freesundayschoollessons http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/87821-hey-doccas-please-explain-your-moniker.html KJV Worship: A Compilation of Statements http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/87807-kjv-worship-a-compilation-of-statements-new-post.html Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:46:39 GMT The KJVO insists that they do not worship the King James Bible. Good. However, their statements undermine this insistence. Just two days ago, Lisa... The KJVO insists that they do not worship the King James Bible. Good. However, their statements undermine this insistence.

Just two days ago, Lisa Ruby asked: "which Bible would you die for?"

She still has not answered my objection that we are never told to die for the Bible. I would die for Jesus, not the Bible.

Are there any other KJV worship statements you find on this forum? ]]> Bible Versions freesundayschoollessons http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/87807-kjv-worship-a-compilation-of-statements.html The KJV and many other older translations on Rom. 10:9 http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/87786-the-kjv-and-many-other-older-translations-on-rom-10-9-a-new-post.html Mon, 16 Aug 2010 02:36:41 GMT Is the KJV (et. al.) correct to render the Greek ομολογησης εν τω στοματι σου κυριον ιησουν (no variants by the way with the TR, MT, CT, & etc.) "thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus." The ASV has "thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord." Not drastically different but theologically can be important.

The issue for me is whether κυριον ιησουν should be rendered as the KJV ("Lord Jesus"), or "Jesus as Lord" like the ASV & NASB, or the similar "that Jesus is Lord" ESV, NET, NIV, NLT, and others (which very closely follow the Vaticanus variant which is οτι κυριος ιησους; this variant takes the accusatives and turns them into nominative/predicate nominative construction with the oti; cf. Wallace, THE SEMANTICS AND EXEGETICAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE OBJECT-COMPLEMENT CONSTRUCTION IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, Grace Theological Journal 6.1, pg. 111.)

My questions are: 1) theologically, is the KJV misleading in the proper confession for salvation? 2) Is the KJV grammatically/syntactically correct in its rendering, i.e. does it convey properly the meaning behind Paul's words (could it be translated better?)? 3) Which translation renders it the best? 4) What does "Lord" refer to - YHWH or mastery or something else? ]]> Bible Versions timotheos http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/87786-the-kjv-and-many-other-older-translations-on-rom-10-9-a.html Does Lisa Ruby deny the Trinity and Hell? http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/87766-does-lisa-ruby-deny-the-trinity-and-hell-new-post.html Sat, 14 Aug 2010 21:41:40 GMT I came across this article: http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.religion.christian/2006-01/msg00141.html Do you deny the Trinity and... I came across this article: http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Arch.../msg00141.html

Do you deny the Trinity and Hell? Or, is that the other person L. Ray Smith? ]]> Bible Versions freesundayschoollessons http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/87766-does-lisa-ruby-deny-the-trinity-and-hell.html Where do you stand - clearing the air! http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/87750-where-do-you-stand-clearing-the-air-new-post.html Sat, 14 Aug 2010 13:48:51 GMT Time to clear the air! Please answer the following questions honestly: 1) Where do you stand on salvation? Please give a short testimony of your... Time to clear the air! Please answer the following questions honestly:

1) Where do you stand on salvation? Please give a short testimony of your salvation (when, where, how). Is water baptism necessary for salvation?
1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

2) Do you believe the Word of God was destroyed and lost beneath the mount when Moses broke the tables of stone containing the finger of God written Ten Commandments?
Ex 32:19 And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses’ anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount.
De 9:17 And I took the two tables, and cast them out of my two hands, and brake them before your eyes.

3) Do you believe that the Canon is limited to the 66 books as listed in the Westminster Confession?
http://www.reformed.org/documents/in..._of_faith.html

4) Do you believe the word "Scripture", "scripture", "γραφη" (graphe)", "pismo", "Pismo", Escritura", or any other word for Scripture written in the language that you read in your Bible, refers to something given by inspiration of God and thus without error or to something that had error in it due to the depravity of man?

5) What does the word Scripture in the following verses refer to:

A) God's word written - given by inspiration of God, pure, perfect, without error, having God's authority, etc.
B) A copy/translation of the word of God, but containing errors due to the depravity of man.

Lk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

6) Do you believe the Trinity? ]]> Bible Versions Mitex http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/87750-where-do-you-stand-clearing-the-air.html Higher Biblical Education: A Blessing http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/87670-higher-biblical-education-a-blessing-new-post.html Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:02:44 GMT This should get some good discussion/debate going even among my friends here on this board :D :gunsmilie: It has been my opinion, even my... This should get some good discussion/debate going even among my friends here on this board :D :gunsmilie:

It has been my opinion, even my pre-seminary opinion, that a pastor (esp. a missionary) ought to have dedicated himself to achieving the standard M.Div. degree. At one time in our history, a M.Div. was THE minimal standard.

Of course there have been giants among us who were geniuses, that did not have formal education. Those are very few and far between. AND, it should be noted that there are M.Divs. who should never be in the ministry.* My general opinion is that an individual should dedicate himself to higher biblical education. It is based on the Scriptural requirement that a pastor be "apt to teach."

Why? Because the discipline involved (learning Greek/Hebrew) weeds out those who lack the discipline and are not "apt to teach." That is not to say that every M.Div. is apt to teach and that those genius.

Often, in our discussion of the translation issue, we have idiotic remarks come from those who despise higher learning. Seminary is knocked by those who never gave themselves to that discipline. The knowledge of Greek and Hebrew is challenged as not important by those who have no clue as to their value.

Why is it that the KJVO places him/herself against this discipline?






*as for myself, though I am no longer a paid ministerial staff member, I am dedicated to church planting in an assisting role while supporting my family through "tent-making." ]]> Bible Versions freesundayschoollessons http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/87670-higher-biblical-education-a-blessing.html <![CDATA[They Took Out Jesus' Words!]]> http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/87624-they-took-out-jesus-words-new-post.html Wed, 11 Aug 2010 03:53:22 GMT http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwUSA...?v=cwUSA7jPGsA

Look What's Missing by Author David Daniels

]]> Bible Versions Lisa Ruby http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bible-versions/87624-they-took-out-jesus-words.html