In brings up the question of how does he know it works....
i knew that statement was coming eventually. the only way I know is by the fruit that comes from those saved. that is it.
Im sure some of those that say they were saved did not accept Jesus, but who am I to not believe that they accepted Jesus.
Jphn 15:
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear FRUIT of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much FRUIT: for without me ye can do nothing.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much FRUIT; so shall ye be my disciples.
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth FRUIT, and that your FRUIT should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
If I see fruit coming from someone's life, I am going to believe they are saved. Also, knowing they have the Father abiding in them, I know the plan works.
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Was it perfect? no was it pretty? no but it was US!
i knew that statement was coming eventually. the only way I know is by the fruit that comes from those saved. that is it.
Im sure some of those that say they were saved did not accept Jesus, but who am I to not believe that they accepted Jesus.
Jphn 15:
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear FRUIT of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much FRUIT: for without me ye can do nothing.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much FRUIT; so shall ye be my disciples.
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth FRUIT, and that your FRUIT should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
If I see fruit coming from someone's life, I am going to believe they are saved. Also, knowing they have the Father abiding in them, I know the plan works.
Fruit???...which fruit would that be???
The Fruit of the Spirit Gal. 5:22-23???..or the fruit of IFBism???
I have seen many people play the game of IFB works, only to turn away from the Truth in the end....
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"I really struggle with American Christianity. I'm not really sure that people with our cultural disabilities are capable of having souls, or being saved......People who grow up in a culture that worships pleasure, leisure, and affluence. I think that's where the church is doubly damned when they use Jesus as a vehicle for achieving all of that. Like, if you give a tithe, He'll make you rich." ---Rich Mullins
Before the early 1900's you do not find much of the would you like to say a prayer and chose salvation. When looking at this one can see in church history this was no acceptable or was join the church on your statement of faith without any evidence of regeneration. You also will notice that in the writings of early Baptist this was not acceptable for salvation either. So what happened at the turn of the century that changed things?
1. Emphasis was taken off of the church and pastor and placed on Para-church fundamental institutions.
2. If you wanted to be a leader in this new movement you had to be successful in growth, not necessarily educated in theology.
3. If your church grew, it meant power and influence and therefore you were valuable to the movement.
4. The battle over modernism and new evangelicalism led to a race to recruit numbers to prove ones right position.
5. Repentance and conversion were lost to methods and programs of growth.
6. Young ministerial students were taught how to build, instead of study, how to influence instead of instruct, and how to manipulate instead of minister.
7. If you look at the average training institution today you find little teaching on theology and church history or emphasis on academics by men that have no ministry with out it.
SO the problem is not with a weak gospel presentation, but with a weak understanding of God and the study of God. Instead of learning how to organize a staff and fill out a Franklin planner, how about classes that study the Word of God, not some anemic outline, but the theology of salvation and the church. How about a class on the office and duties of a pastor according to the Word of God.
[B]"[I]
Im focusing on that fact because that is the key the main goal..... It works. yes that is the method gospel light uses to help someone who is lost find Christ. I keep focusing on the fact that it works, because that simple fact alone is amazing. IT IS BIBLICAL. The fact that it works proves that. there is lasting fruit. that is my point.
Dizzle,
you are a disgrace. You and your fundie church are pragmatists!! You are no better than Rick Warren, Bill Hybles, Joel Osteen and the myraid of other worldly pastors who are leading people to hell. It's not biblical because it works, you moron, it's Biblical because its strictly faithful to the Bible.
You have confessed publically that you don't care about faithfulness to the Bible, just faithfulness to numbers. Why don't you go join the seeker sensitive compromisers since they get better results than your 1950's style of church gimmicks?
"And I have no doubt that there are people saved because of these various methods. But, once again, that is not what we should be seeking. " Umm sorry but that is what im seeking
Let me make something clear. I did not mean that we don't want to see people saved; that is our desire and joy! However, that is not up to us, but up to God! Our job is to present the Gospel faithfully according to what God has revealed to us.
Quote:
You keep focusing on the fact that "it works." I'm not asking whether it "works." I'm asking, "Is it BIBLICAL?" That's the key.
Im focusing on that fact because that is the key the main goal..... It works. yes that is the method gospel light uses to help someone who is lost find Christ. I keep focusing on the fact that it works, because that simple fact alone is amazing. IT IS BIBLICAL. The fact that it works proves that. there is lasting fruit. that is my point.
Ummm...is Joel Osteen biblical? His method seems to be working quite well? What about Rick Warren? Our focus is not to discover what seems to work, but what God has commanded. You have not demonstrated the preceding "gospel presentation" to be what God has commanded. That is what we are after.
"[Irresistible grace] is not external compulsion, which would destroy human free agency, but an inward compulsion by which the sinner becomes willing."
you are a disgrace. You and your fundie church are pragmatists!! You are no better than Rick Warren, Bill Hybles, Joel Osteen and the myraid of other worldly pastors who are leading people to hell. It's not biblical because it works, you moron, it's Biblical because its strictly faithful to the Bible.
You have confessed publically that you don't care about faithfulness to the Bible, just faithfulness to numbers. Why don't you go join the seeker sensitive compromisers since they get better results than your 1950's style of church gimmicks?
Um hello.....codizzle is not the pastor.....if you knew ANYTHING about Eric, you would know that the person you just described is NOT Bro. Capaci.
Nice Christian grace and kindness thing you have going there as well, sir.
you are a disgrace. You and your fundie church are pragmatists!! You are no better than Rick Warren, Bill Hybles, Joel Osteen and the myraid of other worldly pastors who are leading people to hell. It's not biblical because it works, you moron, it's Biblical because its strictly faithful to the Bible.
You have confessed publically that you don't care about faithfulness to the Bible, just faithfulness to numbers. Why don't you go join the seeker sensitive compromisers since they get better results than your 1950's style of church gimmicks?
thanks for your opinion. with all that name calling you sure your not an ifb because thats all you say we do.
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Was it perfect? no was it pretty? no but it was US!
sorry i guess i cant explain it the way i need to. i dont know all the terms and stuff like you guys do and thats my fault but i know what i see here and thats all that matters. As far as I know I am right with God concerning how I present HIs Word.
im not going to stoop down to name calling. sorry that is a little too childish my friend. we can just agree to disagree instead of going to calling each other morons. I dont have the time or patience for that. If i wanted to do that I'd go back to high school. alright im done on this thread.
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Was it perfect? no was it pretty? no but it was US!
sorry i guess i cant explain it the way i need to. i dont know all the terms and stuff like you guys do and thats my fault but i know what i see here and thats all that matters. As far as I know I am right with God concerning how I present HIs Word.
im not going to stoop down to name calling. sorry that is a little too childish my friend. we can just agree to disagree instead of going to calling each other morons. I dont have the time or patience for that. If i wanted to do that I'd go back to high school. alright im done on this thread.
From your profile, you are a 20 year old sophmore at this bible college.
What is your major?
What are your career plans for after you graduate?
.
.
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. Dr. AmazedbyGrace, Doctorate of Bodacious Babe Burqas, BBB.D.
Attention Pulpit Search Committees using Google to do research on candidate Pastor Jason Holden, formerly of Glory Baptist Church in Union, SC, please read the posts of "HyperIFB-pastor".
anti-libel notice:
Of course, the above commentary is only my very humble opinion and, therefore, highly questionable.
Last edited by AmazedbyGrace; 11-04-2008 at 01:24 AM.
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< thats awesome
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