If you know you are saved, elect, then where is there room for us to proclaim to the world that some of you out there will never get salvation because you are not a chosen one.
When I proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ, I let my entire audience know that the death of Christ has made salvation available to all men, and that whosoever believes upon Him will not perish, but have eternal life.
Great responses. Then if there is such an evangelistic emphasis coming from Calvinistic churches why is there such an imbalanced emphasis on teaching that God did not choose some. I am not convinced that we can truly interpret Scriptures to state that God in His nature created all including sin so to not select some and select others. I do believe in the infinite wisdom of God that the truth is that not many will come to Him as a conclusion of all things but not a direct plan of God. So I believe it is in the best interest in all of us that the emphasis be on what we do know. I do know God saved me, I do know that God can save the whosoever will, I do know that God keeps His word. Therefore , My focus and emphasis is on evangelistic outreach by preaching the Word of God. I see no good coming from teaching that God did not choose my neighbor. It is a poor teaching in the discipleship of a new convert to train that person that God does not choose to love and forgive all sin and that you should not worry if no one you witness to gets saved. I think that teaching is dangerous. I find too many that take that teaching and run with it... If God controls all things and there is no choice of man, then everything I do is from God, therefore my sinning is from God and so is my neighbors so why should I condemn them for it because they are just doing what God is making them do. It is ok to sin even though I am saved because God's Grace has already taken care of it for me. "continue in sin, that Grace may abound" Sound familiar. This is why I believe there is more to this teaching of God's elect, predestination, calling then what the teaching that is being taught here and elsewhere.
Great responses. Then if there is such an evangelistic emphasis coming from Calvinistic churches why is there such an imbalanced emphasis on teaching that God did not choose some. I am not convinced that we can truly interpret Scriptures to state that God in His nature created all including sin so to not select some and select others.
This mind-set is typical of hyper-calvinists. I know that I don't believe the above bolded portion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Woltmann
I do believe in the infinite wisdom of God that the truth is that not many will come to Him as a conclusion of all things but not a direct plan of God. So I believe it is in the best interest in all of us that the emphasis be on what we do know. I do know God saved me, I do know that God can save the whosoever will, I do know that God keeps His word. Therefore , My focus and emphasis is on evangelistic outreach by preaching the Word of God. I see no good coming from teaching that God did not choose my neighbor. It is a poor teaching in the discipleship of a new convert to train that person that God does not choose to love and forgive all sin and that you should not worry if no one you witness to gets saved. I think that teaching is dangerous. I find too many that take that teaching and run with it... If God controls all things and there is no choice of man, then everything I do is from God, therefore my sinning is from God and so is my neighbors so why should I condemn them for it because they are just doing what God is making them do. It is ok to sin even though I am saved because God's Grace has already taken care of it for me. "continue in sin, that Grace may abound" Sound familiar. This is why I believe there is more to this teaching of God's elect, predestination, calling then what the teaching that is being taught here and elsewhere.
A+
Dan, there is much truth to what you've said. Even those holding to unconditional election should still strive to offer salvation to all men and let God worry about why so few respond. Furthermore, election should never be taken as a license to not care about lost souls.
This mind-set is typical of hyper-calvinists. I know that I don't believe the above bolded portion.
A+
Dan, there is much truth to what you've said. Even those holding to unconditional election should still strive to offer salvation to all men and let God worry about why so few respond. Furthermore, election should never be taken as a license to not care about lost souls.
This is why I believe this teaching is a truth of God that is at best mis-read but at worst mis-interpreted. The teaching should produce humble servants of God who are overly thankful that God chose them and would be so humbled as to be praising God for His wonderful works of Grace. But I have seen it create the opposite. I have seen an arrogance of pride of intellectualism; i.e. only the learned understand this teaching and have figured God's plan out. They criticize others for lack of learning and understanding of God's Word. An air of arrogance is portrayed of we are in and you are out. In studying the O.T. I have found that this was the downfall of Israel. They made sure everyone knew they were in and all others were out. However that was a false teaching and a reproach to God's call for them. I will not take the time here to address it but a little study will show that there were many followers of God and people we will meet in heaven some day that were not born Jew. I see that the nation of Israel saw themselves as God's chosen people and concluded that no one else could be, therefore they did nothing to proclaim the love of God to the world. Jonah went out of protest to Nineveh and when God saved the people there Jonah was angry. I have seen some and I emphasis some christians that get angry when there are people getting saved and testifying of God's love that do not come from our ranks or backgrounds; they may not even dot there I's or cross there T's like us.
I believe focusing on this type of teaching is dangerous.
If you are not elect, you probably do not even care! A dicussion such as this is foolishness to you
The preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness but to us who are saved, it s the power of God!
If you are elect, there will be evidence of the Holy Ghost at work in your life conforming you to Christ's image by the grace of God. You will have a faith that is unshakeable and undeniable and will be conscienciously aware that this faith is something far beyond your own reason and understanding!
If you are not elect, you probably do not even care! A dicussion such as this is foolishness to you
The preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness but to us who are saved, it s the power of God!
If you are elect, there will be evidence of the Holy Ghost at work in your life conforming you to Christ's image by the grace of God. You will have a faith that is unshakeable and undeniable and will be conscienciously aware that this faith is something far beyond your own reason and understanding!
So the Book of I John is useless and should have never been written. God made a mistake to assume that there would be people who had doubts about there salvation and need to have a truth taught to them how they can know they are saved. I guess I have a number of Bibles I need to do some trimming to. Thanks for your help with this.
I would like to start a post that deals with how You know you are saved, the elect. Please no post that deal with theoretical, how someone knows they are saved or the elect. What I would like here is personal testimonies using Scripture; How do You know you are saved.
So the Book of I John is useless and should have never been written. God made a mistake to assume that there would be people who had doubts about there salvation and need to have a truth taught to them how they can know they are saved. I guess I have a number of Bibles I need to do some trimming to. Thanks for your help with this.
What are you responding to? TB wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TB
If you are elect, there will be evidence of the Holy Ghost at work in your life conforming you to Christ's image by the grace of God. You will have a faith that is unshakeable and undeniable and will be conscienciously aware that this faith is something far beyond your own reason and understanding!
That doesn't give me the impression 1 John is useless. It gives me the impression you're a disagreeable moron.
This is the part I was responding to. If that statement is true then the book of I John is a waste of time. There would be no need to teach how you can know and give ways if the only way is "if you are elect you will know" No where in I John does it say that at all. Again the arrogance of this teaching continues to ignore the truth of God's word when it comes to proclaiming the truth of salvation to the lost.
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