To Calvinists: How long it takes you to believe on Jesus after you heard the gospel?
The reason I make this topic. Because Calvinism doctrine's one of the five points- 'Iresistible Grace'. It teaches that God's effectual of power with force to touch saint's heart after hear the gospel, then immediately believe in Jesus without make decision.
Irresistible grace does not mean that regeneration happens immediately after hearing the gospel.
Here is what the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith says.
"Those whom God hath predestinated unto life, he is pleased in his appointed, and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God; taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them a heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ; yet so as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace. "
Some people love banana pudding. They walk in and see the pudding, they will say that this pudding is irresistible. The pudding is so good, they just have to have some. Is the pudding forcing them to eat it? No, it is just so good they they choose to eat it because they want it. this is the same thing with God. We naturally don't want Christ. God changes our heart to want to come to Him!
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To all Calvinists, please be honest with my question. I cannot see your heart, only God knows you. I am sure several some of you Calvinists did fianlly believe in Jesus took a while after you hear the gospel, not just a second, or one minute either. Also, you better be admit telling me, be honest. WHY you did believed in Jesus after you heard the gospel? Please do not say to me, "Because God tolds me so." You have to admit tell the honest to us, WHY you did believe in Jesus after you heard the gospel? Please do not play with my question, ok? God is watching you.
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
I was not saved the first time I heard the gospel. Nor did I get saved the second or third time. I was saved when God changed my heart from not loving him to loving him. The grace of God saved me through faith in Jesus Christ.
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II Corinthians 1:20 ESV "For all the promises of God find their Yes in him. That is why it is through him that we utter our Amen to God for his glory."
Jude 24-25 ESV "Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen."
Yes I do believe that the Holy Spirit's job is to convict the world. And yes I do believe Holy Spirit have the power with effectful to touch people's minds and hearts. Yes I do agree that the Holy Spirit regenerates person's heart, and to dwell into person's soul at new birth.
But what I have disagreement with Calvinism on Irresistible Grace is, I do not agree with them on the timing of individual's salvation. For example- They believe God regenerates person's heart first before put faith, or believe on Jesus.
Hold on this for moment.
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It just so good they choose to eat because they want it. This is the same thing with God. We naturally don't want Christ. God changes our heart to want to come to Him!
Not always that every individual do not want Christ. Rather we are all sinners. Before our salvation, we were blind and dead with have Christ. Till someone witness gospel to us as the light touches our minds and hearts, and start to understanding the gospel. Yes, the Holy Spirit does touch our minds and hearts while hearing the gospel at same time, but, He doesn't push or force us to believe. He can only is knocking our hearts(Rev. 3:20). He doesn't break into our hearts(door), he just stand outside of our hearts, waiting for us to let Him come into by through our willing and decision. Christ cannot come into us TILL we allow him come in first. Of course, our flesh doesn't want Christ. But, when we hear the gospel, when it touches our hearts and minds, and we would want Christ to come in AFTER hear the gospel first.
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I was not saved the first time I heard the gospel. Nor did I get saved the second or third time. I was saved when God changed my heart from not loving him to loving him. The Grace of God saved me through faith in Jesus Christ.
Ok, I understand you. My question to ask you on this. HOW did you heard the gospel first time before your salvation? How long it took you to believe on Jesus after you heard the gospel?
I do believe in the doctrine of regeneration, because it is described in Bible. Yes, Bible tells us that Holy Spirit regenerates into us at our birth("born again").
The problem is, I disagree with calvinists on the timing of individual's salvation. They believe Holy Spirit regenerates in indidvidual first before have faith and believe on Jesus.
in Eph. 1:13 telling us very clear, it says:
"In whom ye also trusted, AFTER that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also AFTER that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise."
This verse tells us, the Holy Spirit would not sealed or come into our souls TILL we hear the gospel of salvation first, and also, TILL we believed the gospel first too. When after we believed in Jesus Christ, THEN the Holy Spirit comes in us.
Also, in Romans 10:14 says: "HOW then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and HOW shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and HOW shall they hear WITHOUT A PREACHER?"
This verse tells us, a person cannot call upon the Lord without heard the gospel from Christians. God cannot regenarate into person TILL a person hear the gospel first. Secondly, God cannot regenate into person TILL a person have to confess by believe with in heart to ask Christ for saved FIRST. THEN God regenrate into person to be saved.
Understand clear? That what Romans 10:9-14 explaining.
I do believe in the doctrine of regeneration, because it is described in Bible. Yes, Bible tells us that Holy Spirit regenerates into us at our birth("born again").
The problem is, I disagree with calvinists on the timing of individual's salvation. They believe Holy Spirit regenerates in indidvidual first before have faith and believe on Jesus.
in Eph. 1:13 telling us very clear, it says:
"In whom ye also trusted, AFTER that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also AFTER that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise."
This verse tells us, the Holy Spirit would not sealed or come into our souls TILL we hear the gospel of salvation first, and also, TILL we believed the gospel first too. When after we believed in Jesus Christ, THEN the Holy Spirit comes in us.
Yes, we were sealed with the Holy Spirit after our conversion, which is our repentance and faith. This sealing is part of our justification, being declared righteous in Christ.
But our regeneration (being born again by the Holy Spirit) precedes our conversion and our justification, for John 3:3 tells us "In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." We cannot see or perceive the Kingdom unless and until the Spirit first regenerates us. Only then can we repent and believe on Christ.
Compare 1 John 5:1 "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God." Our belief follows our regeneration.
So the order is:
Regeneration (the sovereign act of the Holy Spirit implanting new life in our soul)
Conversion (repenting and trusting in Christ alone)
Justification (being declared righteous by God)
Note that regeneration and conversion may be simultaneous, but the former logically precedes the latter.
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Also, in Romans 10:14 says: "HOW then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and HOW shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and HOW shall they hear WITHOUT A PREACHER?"
This verse tells us, a person cannot call upon the Lord without heard the gospel from Christians. God cannot regenarate into person TILL a person hear the gospel first.
Secondly, God cannot regenate into person TILL a person have to confess by believe with in heart to ask Christ for saved FIRST. THEN God regenrate into person to be saved.
Understand clear? That what Romans 10:9-14 explaining.
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
No, this verse tells us that a sinner cannot convert (repent and believe) until after he hears the gospel. Conversion is a human activity, regeneration is a divine activity. This verse is addressing our conversion, not our regeneration.
How long does it take you to believe on Jesus after you heard the gospel?
Although I'm not of the Calvinist persuasion, for me personally, it took about three weeks after I was regenerated to actually believe the gospel and put my faith in Christ and become converted. That's my story and I'm stickin with it.
Although I'm not of the Calvinist persuasion, for me personally, it took about three weeks after I was regenerated to actually believe the gospel and put my faith in Christ and become converted. That's my story and I'm stickin with it.
If you had died in that in-between period, would you have gone to Hell?
If you had died in that in-between period, would you have gone to Hell?
Why would God regenerate me and then let me die sometime between the three week period until the time of my actual conversion? I can't imagine what glory that would bring to Him. In His omniscience He must have known that I would ultimately put my faith in Christ, and anger the adversary. I'm thinking that by His omnipotent power and providence He saw to it that nothing would prevent that from coming to fruitation. And what joy there must of been in the presence of His angels over this one sinner who repented (Luke 15:10)
Why would God regenerate me and then let me die sometime between the three week period until the time of my actual conversion? I can't imagine what glory that would bring to Him. In His omniscience He must have known that I would ultimately put my faith in Christ, and anger the adversary. I'm thinking that by His omnipotent power and providence He saw to it that nothing would prevent that from coming to fruitation. And what joy there must of been in the presence of His angels over this one sinner who repented (Luke 15:10)
My aim is simply to gauge whether or not you believe one who is regenerated could go to Hell.
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