"In fact, if you wish to know how libertarians regard the State and any of its acts, simply think of the State as a criminal band, and all of the libertarian attitudes will logically fall into place." - Murray Rothbard
He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him. - Hebrew proverb
Does your doctrine require these additional words???
Here is Calvin's response:
Not willing that any should perish. "So wonderful is his love towards mankind, that he would have them all to be saved, and is of his own self prepared to bestow salvation on the lost. But the order is to be noticed, that God is ready to receive all to repentance, so that none may perish; for in these words the way and manner of obtaining salvation is pointed out. Every one of us, therefore, who is desirous of salvation, must learn to enter in by this way.
But it may be asked, If God wishes none to perish, why is it that so many do perish? To this my answer is, that no mention is here made of the hidden purpose of God, according to which the reprobate are doomed to their own ruin, but only of his will as made known to us in the gospel. For God there stretches forth his hand without a difference to all, but lays hold only of those, to lead them to himself, whom he has chosen before the foundation of the world."
(Edwards again) In this particular verse Peter is not speaking of the hidden purposes (His unseen will) of God, only the general call of the gospel to all people to come for life in Jesus Christ.
Ultimately we end up with what J. I. describes as an "antimony" which is a contradiction between two laws that are both true. We have sovereignty on the one hand and human responsibility on the other......both of which are true, yet they do not make sense to our finite minds. The answer according to Packer (and I agree) is that how can humans with puny brains understand everything there is to know about an infinite God.
In other words both are true and we don't know why! It's like praying for someones salvation and having them receive Christ. Did they choose for themselves?.....yes. Did prayer play a part in it?.....yes. Did God's Holy Spirit convict them and lead them to the Savior?......yes? Was in human responsibility or God's sovereignty that came into play?.....yes!
If you want everything rolled up into a neat little package that you can understand, all you end up with is a god of your own making. If you know the infinite Almighty that does what He wants, whenever He wants and no one can stop Him (the God of scripture) then there will be mysteries.
It amuses me how both sides of the debate seek to interject their doctrine into a simple question.
What does "chosen to salvation" mean?
It means that God has chosen beforehand to save a particular people. What must one do to be saved? "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ."
Now, y'all can debate all you want as to why some have faith and others don't, but that aspect doesn't need to be drawn into answering the OP.
Aren't you interjecting your doctrine into the debate as well? Actually, there isn't much difference between what you wrote and what I posted.
These are not easy questions for while the simplest of minds can understand the gospel message, the best of minds will never get to the bottom of God's truth.
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any [who he wills not to perish] should perish, but that all [who he wills to come to repentance] should come to repentance."
Hey guys (some of you), contextualization.
Who is the "you" in 2 Peter 3:9? Well, it is the Christians previously discussed in the preceding verses and chapter (e.g., 3:8)...
This is by no means a verse refuting God's sovereign election, nor is it supporting man's free choice outside of God's sovereign election. It is a common misquoted verse.
...
__________________
Sola Scriptura,
XD
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"This isn't about Calvinism/Arminianism... it's about the gospel!" -Paul Washer
"we all, by nature, are Arminians." -C. H. Spurgeon
This forum is a magnet for know it alls and nerds..
I am out of here
Joe, while I was reading your post I was thinking, "Why is he here if he thinks discussing something makes on an idiot?" Then you said, "I am out of here" and it made perfect sense as to why.
You also said, "This forum is a magnet for know it alls and nerds.." The truth is that many of us are actively involved in fruitful ministry. I agree, there are some who do think they know everything, however they are a vast minority.
As a matter of fact, I wrote in my post, "In other words both are true and we don't know why! It's like praying for someones salvation and having them receive Christ. Did they choose for themselves?.....yes. Did prayer play a part in it?.....yes. Did God's Holy Spirit convict them and lead them to the Savior?......yes? Was in human responsibility or God's sovereignty that came into play?.....yes!
If you want everything rolled up into a neat little package that you can understand, all you end up with is a god of your own making. If you know the infinite Almighty that does what He wants, whenever He wants and no one can stop Him (the God of scripture) then there will be mysteries. It doesn't sound like a know-it-all attitude to me.
My theory is that you are reading things on this forum you don't agree with and don't know how to defend your own beliefs. That is why you don't want to discuss it. It's just a theory.
Who is the "you" in 2 Peter 3:9? Well, it is the Christians previously discussed in the preceding verses and chapter (e.g., 3:8)...
This is by no means a verse refuting God's sovereign election, nor is it supporting man's free choice outside of God's sovereign election. It is a common misquoted verse.
...
Are you disagreeing with my Calvin quote earlier? Do you really think that Peter expected his readers to do a detailed study of his letter to understand it?
Are you disagreeing with my Calvin quote earlier? Do you really think that Peter expected his readers to do a detailed study of his letter to understand it?
I'm just offering a general response to 2 Peter 3:9. Many people use that verse as a proof text to support their notion that God wants everyone everywhere to be saved, as opposed to what the context of the verse states.
I'm not sure if you would agree or disagree.
...
__________________
Sola Scriptura,
XD
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"This isn't about Calvinism/Arminianism... it's about the gospel!" -Paul Washer
"we all, by nature, are Arminians." -C. H. Spurgeon
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