Herbs defense of the Sovereignty of Man, and my response. - Page 40

Herb Evans · #**391** 10-24-2009, 12:14 PM

Regeneration Before Repentance and Faith?

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you. 1 Pet. 1:23 – 25

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. --James 1:17-18

Every once in a while, we run across a TULIP (Calvinist), who believes that a person is born again before he repents or believes (something that even Calvin cannot be quoted as believing). The TULIP's contention is that a dead man cannot repent or believe, so he therefore must be regenerated before he can do so.

Of course, this is merely damage control to fill a hole in TULIP's unbiblical philosophy. The poor Calvinist must find a way to make a difference between the socalled elect and non-elect prior to the so called elect's salvation. The TULIP's contention is that if repentance and faith precede the new birth, it is therefore salvation by works. We would agree and also contend that salvation is per God's will and is a free gift of God and not of ourselves. We would contend that the lost are begotten WITH THE WORD OF TRUTH and that the word of truth, the gospel, is also a free gift per God's will.

This all boils down to what God's will really is and not what a TULIP's will is and what God's plan is to save sinners. Now, we await the TULIP explanation as to how the socalled elect are regenerated with or without the word of truth or Gospel and born again preceding it. God's will is that the lost are begotten with the word of truth rather than with some unwritten decree in eternity? -- Herb Evans

Herb Evans · #**392** 11-11-2009, 10:43 AM

TULIPS and the FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH/WORLD versus ETERNITY

Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth . . .

Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world . . .

2Sa 22:16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the LORD, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? . . .

Psa 18:15 . . . Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O LORD, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.

Psa 102:25 OF OLD (NOT ETERNITY) hast thou laid the foundation of the earth . . .

Pro 8:29 WHEN he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: WHEN he appointed the foundations of the earth:

Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth . . . – Isa 48:13

The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him. -- Zec 12:1

Obviously from the Old and the New Testament, the foundation of the world or earth was laid in TIME and not ETERNITY. To confuse the foundation of the earth with ETERNITY, as opposed to Time, is to mistake “BEFORE” the foundation of the world with “FROM” the foundation of the world.

BEFORE the Foundation of the World

Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am . . . for thou lovedst me BEFORE the foundation of the world. – John 17:24

According as he hath chosen us IN HIM BEFORE the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love . . . – Eph. 1:4, 5

Who verily was foreordained BEFORE the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you . . . 1 Pet. 1:20

Calvinists are quick to point out that “BEFORE” the foundation of the world is a reference to eternity, and we do not have a problem with this view. Unfortunately, for the TULIPS, they are incapable of understanding that the foundation of the world is IN TIME and not eternity. Moreover, TULIPS do not understand the difference between “BEFORE” the foundation of the world and “FROM” the foundation of the world. Before the foundation of the world or eternity precedes the foundation of the world which happened in TIME. In other words, what can be BEFORE ETERNITY?

The fact that we are CHOSEN IN HIM before the foundation of the world does not mean that any sinner existed or was saved before the foundation of the world. It merely means that God laid down the basis for being chosen, i.e., IN HIM, IN CHRIST. No one is IN CHRIST BEFORE they are saved let alone BEFORE the foundation of the world. Folks are only IN CHRIST IN TIME. Still, it says that God’s purpose of choosing those, who would be IN CHRIST, was that they should be holy and without blame, something that is not always the case with those IN CHRIST in this life. However, being predestinated to be conformed to the image of God’s SON is the destiny of all born again Christians.The Word (Jesus Christ) is the one that existed BEFORE the foundation of the world, but we were not there, neither did we exist, and although we were CHOSEN IN HIM in eternity, we were not IN HIM in eternity but were found IN HIM IN TIME, when we believed on Him.

FROM the Foundation of the World

Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood FROM the foundations of the earth? – Isa 40:21

I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret FROM the foundation of the world. – Matt. 13:35

. . . Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you FROMthe foundation of the world:-- Matt. 25:34

For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished FROM the foundation of the world. -- Heb 4:3

Luke 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed FROM the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;

Heb 4:3 As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished FROM the foundation of the world. The Foundation of the Earth/Worlds

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain FROM the foundation of the world.

Rev 17:8 . . . they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life FROM the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

The Lord’s works were, indeed, finished FROM the foundation of world (Heb. 4:3), and the Lamb was slain FROM the foundation of the world (Rev. 13:8). Our inheritance and the millennial kingdom were also prepared FROM the foundation of the world. So, it is no surprise that our names were written in the Lamb’s book of Life FROM the foundation of the world (not before) and not FROM eternity.

This was all foreknown by God. God wrote the saved, whom He foreknew, in the Lamb’s Book of Life IN TIME. Election or being chosen IN HIM from the foundation of the world is based on the foreknowledge of God and not because God planned that election as well as the damnation of the so called non elect. If God foreknew those things only because He planned them then every sin and vile and wicked thing would have been planned and predestined by a God that cannot bear to look upon such things.

-- by Herb Evans