Yes death spread to all men. But the verse says through one man. That one man was Adam. Therefore the verse doesn't say that I chose a sinful nature. Once again I only inherited my sin nature. If there is a verse that says I chose my sin nature, I would love to see it. I really don't believe one exists.
I'm guilty too. Were all sinners by the nature we inherited.
Once again I would never accuse God of being unfair. All I said is this; God is the only one who can regenerate us. We can't choose to become regenerate. A corpse can't raise itself to spiritual life. If a person remains unregenerate, it's not his fault. A person can't be at fault for that which he can't perform. It's not within his powers to become regenerate, or choose to become regenerate.
I never said God is obligated to regenerate anyone.
As I have already stated; I don't see how the dead can be at fault for remaining dead. It's not in their power to raise themself to life. Only a source outside theirselves is capable of raising them to life. I have never seen a corpse raise itself. God condemns those who refuse to believe. Belief is a choice, regeneration isn't a choice.
Because belief is a choice, regeneration isn't a choice we can make.
We arrive at the same conclusion, somehow. I only have 2 questions:
1. If we didn't choose our sin nature, why do you think we are responsible for our sin?
2. As I understood you, I thought you said regenerates could choose whether or not to obey God after regeneration. Is that correct? If so, why would one spiritually alive person choose God, and another spiritually alive person choose sin?
We arrive at the same conclusion, somehow. I only have 2 questions:
1. If we didn't choose our sin nature, why do you think we are responsible for our sin?
We are all guilty in Adam
Now let me make the following comment.
If I chose my sin nature then that cancels out my inheriting a sin nature. Either I inherited it or I chose it. The one cancels out the other. It's one or the other, not both. And I know you already said we inherited it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight
2. As I understood you, I thought you said regenerates could choose whether or not to obey God after regeneration. Is that correct?
Post regeneration obedience is not only possible it is commanded
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight
If so, why would one spiritually alive person choose God, and another spiritually alive person choose sin?
Because one wants to remain in darkness which he loves
John 3:19 And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil.
"The cause why all are not saved by Christ . . . is the infidelity of men, whereby they refuse the benefits of Christ offered in the Gospel" - (Ursinus -The Summe)
Hath been judged already (ēdē kekritai). Perfect passive indicative of krinō. Judgment has already been passed on the one who refuses to believe in Christ as the Saviour sent by the Father, the man who is not willing to come to Christ for life (Joh_5:40). (Robertson's Word Pictures)
"We assert, both according to the teaching of divine Scripture, and according to the consensus of the whole of Christianity, that Christ suffered and died not for some only but for all the posterity of Adam, and, to put it very clearly, with no-one excepted from the whole universality of the human race, whether he should claim and apply salvation to himself through faith and remain in the accepted salvation, or whether, through unbelief, he should reject the offered salvation, and, on account of that, perish eternally." (Samuel Huber - Thesis 19, Christum esse mortum pro peccatis omnium hominum, cited in Adam, op.cit., p.94)
__________________ "Sin fascinates you, then it assassinates you."
Rom 8:12-13 So then, brethren, if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Preach the Gospel at all times ... if necessary, use words. (St. Francis of Assisi)
Last edited by Wilderness Voice; 01-10-2008 at 05:57 AM.
If I chose my sin nature then that cancels out my inheriting a sin nature. Either I inherited it or I chose it. The one cancels out the other. It's one or the other, not both. And I know you already said we inherited it.
Post regeneration obedience is not only possible it is commanded
Because one wants to remain in darkness which he loves
John 3:19 And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil.
"The cause why all are not saved by Christ . . . is the infidelity of men, whereby they refuse the benefits of Christ offered in the Gospel" - (Ursinus -The Summe)
Hath been judged already (ēdē kekritai). Perfect passive indicative of krinō. Judgment has already been passed on the one who refuses to believe in Christ as the Saviour sent by the Father, the man who is not willing to come to Christ for life (Joh_5:40). (Robertson's Word Pictures)
"We assert, both according to the teaching of divine Scripture, and according to the consensus of the whole of Christianity, that Christ suffered and died not for some only but for all the posterity of Adam, and, to put it very clearly, with no-one excepted from the whole universality of the human race, whether he should claim and apply salvation to himself through faith and remain in the accepted salvation, or whether, through unbelief, he should reject the offered salvation, and, on account of that, perish eternally." (Samuel Huber - Thesis 19, Christum esse mortum pro peccatis omnium hominum, cited in Adam, op.cit., p.94)
Oh boy, this isn't going anywhere but in circles. Ok then, I'd rather not ring round the rosy anymore.
Oh boy, this isn't going anywhere but in circles. Ok then, I'd rather not ring round the rosy anymore.
Thats fine if you no longer desire to discuss this, however I hope that if you get nothing else out of our discussions you will at least consider this.
If I inherited my sin nature then that cancels out my choosing a sin nature. Either I inherited it or I chose it. The one cancels out the other. It's one or the other, not both.
__________________ "Sin fascinates you, then it assassinates you."
Rom 8:12-13 So then, brethren, if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Preach the Gospel at all times ... if necessary, use words. (St. Francis of Assisi)
Thats fine if you no longer desire to discuss this, however I hope that if you get nothing else out of our discussions you will at least consider this.
If I inherited my sin nature then that cancels out my choosing a sin nature. Either I inherited it or I chose it. The one cancels out the other. It's one or the other, not both.
Yes, that makes sense. I'm phrasing it wrong. Like I said, you should read up on federal headship, that's what I believe. I'm just not explaining it right.
The views and opinions expressed on this web site are not necessarily those of the Fighting Fundamental Forums management. This is an open and unmoderated forum. The content of each post is the sole responsibility of the poster. Participants are expected to follow the simple rules of the forum. Within these wide parameters various views are welcome to be expressed freely.
The college names used on the FundamentalForums.com web site are trademarks of their respective schools. The forums are not officially sanctioned by any of the institutions represented.
Linear Mode
