Fred, you covered a great deal of ground with some wild, unsubstatiated statements, including calling me a liar. I trust that Forum members will allow me the space to defend myself.
Fred "I hope you are not under the illusion that you became less judgmental and openminded when you became an exfundie."
You have no factual basis for the supposition that I was "judgmental" and not "openminded" when I was a fundamentalist.
Fred "You are full of hate that is not based on facts."
I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say but it doesn't sound like a compliment. If you have a problem with the facts I presented - and apparently you do because you continue to ignore reality - then turn your attention to them and not to what you imagine to be wrong with me.
Fred "It is a lie that a fundamental tenet is that the Joneses are immune to earthly biblical scrutiny."
Had you known that blind loyalty is the coin of the realm at BJU, you would have known that "Nobody disagrees with Bob Jones and remains his friend for long." Before you accuse me of lying again, why not forward this post to Mr. Bob III and seek an answer of him? If he gives you a point-by-point answer, I'll admit this so-called "lie" of which you accuse me and publicly beg forgiveness. If he doesn't, then you admit to your own lie. Fair enough? Note this letter to a student from BJU:
"Disloyalty is a character fault that I do not believe is ever cured. I will forgive a disloyal person if he asks me to, but I will never trust him again...[W]hen Bob Jones University has had to draw battle lines and take a position, those who are students and faculty and do not stand with us are traitors to the cause this institution represents; and there is no reason why we should ever let them return. We will forgive them if they ask us, but we could not trust them not to betray us again if the occassion arose."
Fred "To say that Mr. Jones' statements are designed to deceive a worldwide audience is also a lie."
Your above statement is demonstrably untrue. Dr. Walter Fremont says, "Lying is deliberately distorting reality to deceive or to mislead others by falsifying or concealing information." (Forum members, please be patient as I try to share with Fred some reality.)
Bob Jones III convinced the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals that "A primary fundamentalist conviction of [BJU] is that the Scriptures forbid interracial dating and marriage..." The Court ruled these beliefs, supported by [BJU's] interpretation of the Bible, 'are genuine religious beliefs.'"
When he lost the tax case, Bob Jones III said, "We believe the policy that has gotten us in difficulty is a Bible policy and we're going to hold to it." Bob invoked the highest earthly authority, the Bible, the final authority for faith and practice, in support of his interracial dating/marriage ban.
In ruling against BJU's interracial dating ban, Jones said the Supreme Court justices "have demonstrated they are enemies of heaven and the Lord Jesus Christ. I fear for America and for the court."..."The Court's ruling is an example of what is happening to religious freedom in America." In so doing, Fred, Bob publicly invoked heaven and the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Highest Authority in heaven, in support of his interracial dating/marriage ban.
Then, Bob Jones III again found himself under national scrutiny. Everyone is well-aware that Larry King Live has a worldwide audience; that is why Bob chose Larry's show. Bob would have been foolish not to have mentally prepared "talking points." It doesn't take a media genius to identify Bob's talking points: "we've dropped the rule," "we dropped the rule," "we dropped it," "never talk about," "unimportant to us," "insignificant to us," "never talk about and it is meaningless to us," "no biblical reference," etc.
The reality surrounding the rules would have been far less kind to BJU had Bob not distorted and/or concealed the reality surrounding the rules. The interracial rules were imposed upon every incoming student, staffer, and faculty member at BJU over many years, possibly 30,000 people, many multiple times. Each person was required to read and sign agreeing to obey the interracial rules. Students read and signed their agreement each year.
Yet, Bob Jones III stated to a worldwide audience, "...this rule which we never talk about or preach. Which most of our students coundn't even tell you what it is. It's that unimportant to us. I said to our administration, 'You know guys, this thing is of such insignificance to us..."
Bob Jones III said, "...this rule which we never talk about." Fred, in reality, it was regularly communicated to others. Students read and signed promising to obey the rules under threat of expulsion! Check out this 1998
letter from Jonathan Pait, BJU Community Relations Coordinator. Do you want more?
These were not "meaningless" rules to Mr. Bob Jones III. Violation of the interracial rules led to actual expulsions and/or dismissals, as Pastors Wayne Golson and Steve Keyes found out one Monday morning when Southside Baptist Church granted memberships to a mixed race couple in their church. Incidentally, Pastor Hanford, reported from his pulpit that the interracial dating/marriage issue was, "the talk of the [BJU] chapel platform." Churches, pastors, and grads knew of the rules and the consequences of disagreements with the Joneses over such things.
Fred "I feel sorry for you. Hate will eat away any spiritual life you may have."
There is no honesty in these statements, Fred. They are mean-spirited and poorly disguised ad hominem attacks on me and my spiritual integrity. Get over it, Fred. Don't blame me for Bob Jones III's duplicity and your being duped.
Fred "I don't agree with much of what the Joneses have said but I believe their beliefs were sincerely held and not some plot to deceive the world."
You sound ridiculously like a defense attorney hopelessly saddled with a guilty pedophile or some such. Please, don't so praise me! I prefer your insults! If anyone but a Jones did that detailed herein, he would be finished as a Bible doctrine/policy guru. "Laws for all faults but faults so countenanced..."
Yes, I was a BJU'er and I defended BJU and the Joneses. Are you having fun yet, Fred. Would you like to explain away some quotes from Bob Jr. and Bob III like this one so that we can take each saying and belief and pass them by your "sincerity" meter? After you have explained Bob's insignificant interracial dating/marriage Bible policy and how heaven and the Lord Jesus Christ support him, then you can explain this gem:
"Bob III also inherited a gift for pugnacious rhetoric. In the '60s, he told an interviewer: 'A Negro is best when he serves at the table," then quickly added, "I'm not a racist."' The Washington Post, "Getting the Bob out of Bob Jones U".
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