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  1. #1
    Master of Fundamentalism
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    Default Apostasy at BJU?

    Radical Changes afoot at Bob Jones University

    In the classrooms of Bob Jones University, the walls bear printed slogans - the thoughts of Bob Jones Sr. the founder of the University such as “It is better to die for something than to live for nothing” and “It is never right to do wrong in order to get a chance to do right.” However, the University, which has for many decades embodied militant fundamentalism in the USA as the “Fortress of Faith” has radically changed over the last few years.

    One of the first harbingers of change was that in 2004 BJU applied for (and received) accreditation, as an academic institution. This was particularly controversial among American Fundamentalists, as the process had always been avoided and attacked by the Jones family because, as Bob Jones III once said, “accrediting associations will not approve our educational process if it does not include the worship of their gods. ”

    Another change that caused concern was a lecture given at a Neo-Evangelical local university in Greenville, Furman University in April 2003 on Christianity: Lost Among the American Ruins, as part of Furman’s “Religion-in-Life” lecture series. Previous to this, the Jones family and BJU had refused to speak at any meetings at such institutions. In his lecture, Jones never rebuked the ecumenism and inter-faith activities of Furman or took any stand on Biblical separation. Indeed, the word “fundamentalism” was studiously avoided (as it is from their website today).

    Further signs of the changes to come was hinted in a Washington Times article of Thursday, May 5, 2005 which carried extensive interviews with the new President, Dr. Stephen Jones and his father, Dr Bob Jones III. The secular reporter, from the newspaper owned by the “Reverend” Sun Myung Moon’s of the Unification Church (Moonies), introduced the article by questioning, “Could America's most famous bastion of hard-core Christian fundamentalism and pugnacious political conservatism be getting a little . . . soft? There are signs, portents.”

    In his interview with the Times, the incoming President, Stephen Jones was said to be “embarrassed” by some of the more vitriolic comments of the various Bob Joneses, although he would not identify them, “I don’t want to get specific,” he said. “But there were things said back then that I wouldn’t say today. ” Then in January 2007, BJU indicated that they would no longer be referring to the Pope as the “antichrist” in public any more as the founder and his son Dr. Bob Jones Jr. and Sr. had. In an interview with the Greenville News BJU, spokesman Jonathan Pait revealed,

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    Dr. Bob Jones Jr’s statement about the pope some 30 years ago has been misinterpreted by many. Jones was using “Reformation language” to make a point about his belief that the idea of the pope being Christ’s vicar on Earth is unbiblical is not referring to the antichrist mentioned in the book of Revelation, Pait said. But the university’s position on Catholicism hasn’t changed, he said. “We do vehemently disagree with Catholic doctrine,” Pait said. “And while we probably wouldn't use those terms today, it showed how vehemently we disagreed with Catholic doctrine. ”
    This change was noteworthy as in February 10, 2000, in an interview with the New York Times; Pait gave an interview, in which the Times recorded ,

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    The former head of the university, Bob Jones Jr., engaged in an astonishing series of attacks on Catholics in the 1980's, asserting that '”all the popes are demon-possessed” and that Pope John Paul II was '”the greatest danger we face today.”
     
    “The papacy,”' he said, “is the religion of Antichrist and is a satanic system.” 
    On Tuesday I asked a spokesman for the university, Jonathan Pait, if the school had ever repudiated Mr. Jones’ statements, or backed off of them in any way. 
    “I don’t believe so,” he said. According to Mr. Pait, “There is a disagreement about what the Bible teaches between Catholicism and Protestantism. And the university takes a very strong stand that Protestantism is the correct interpretation of Scripture.”
    On March 2007 in preparation for a visit to the BJU campus by a radical homosexual group called Soulforce, President Stephen Jones made this startling admission about his “friends” at the Campus Chapel,

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    The homosexuals I know are extremely nice……..I have friends who are struggling with homosexuality, I have friends who are not struggling but have given themselves over to this lifestyle…. the issue is not how nice these people are and they are….the issue is not how wrong Christians may have been in the past and how we have spoken about this in the past and we have been wrong in the past .
    However, the move that has proven to be the most polemical and has stunned fundamentalists around the world was the bold recent endorsement by the current Chancellor, Bob Jones III and Dr. Robert Taylor, current Dean of the BJU College of Arts and Sciences of the Mormon Bishop, Mitt Romney as Presidential candidate for the Republican party. Speaking after meeting Romney privately in October 16, 2007, Dr. Jones said to the Greenville News,

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    And I just believe that this man has the credentials both personally and ideologically in terms of his view about what American government should be to best represent the rank and file of conservative Americans… He’s a very presidential guy. He has a loving family. He has, as far as I can tell, no scandal connected with his life. I can’t say that about all of the candidates unfortunately.
    CNN also reported on Friday November 9, 2007 that the net has widened to include “students, faculty and alumni” who have been meeting Romney privately at secretly organized meetings,

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    Perhaps more illuminating than Romney’s on-message speech to the crowd was his introduction by Taylor, the college dean and a top official at Bob Jones. Taylor tried to convince the audience that they should support Romney despite his religion. He suggested Romney’s faith is preventing many fellow evangelicals from supporting the former Massachusetts governor. “I think there’s a lot of us evangelicals that have kind of held back a little,” Taylor said. “They realize he's the guy they would like to support, but they’re kind of looking left and right and seeing, ‘OK who has the courage to step out and support him and if somebody else does maybe I will, too. ’
    What is most surprising in this u-turn is that Bob Jones III was previously cited in the Washington Post in the ‘80s denouncing the political Moral Majority and “disobedient preachers such as Billy Graham and Jerry Falwell” for appearing with Catholics, Mormons and Jews, which he called the “sin of spiritual fornication. ” Yet, 25 years later he publicly has put his name and reputation behind a Mormon leader, who is a leader of a cult and believes that he will be a “god.” Dr. Jones clearly does not discern how deleterious it would be to place a Mormon into the White House. The great propaganda value to this cult is unquestionable, with the most “powerful man on the planet” pictured reading the Book of Mormon and attending their “temples.” It would encourage the whole world to see the lies of Mormonism as simply an alternative interpretation of Christianity.

    Neo-Evangelical Radio Host and Baptist Pastor, Chuck Baldwin who was ironically once the State Chairman of the Florida Moral Majority from 1980-1984, now rebukes this step by Dr. Jones,

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    Since when does a preacher of the Gospel and Christian educator put electing charlatans (of any political party) ahead of standing for truth and doing right? And this leads to another problem.
    
    Our Christian “leaders” have forgotten what it means to stand on principle. They have gotten so bogged down in politics that they have forsaken the divine call to be watchmen on the wall. If Bob Jones III would be as concerned about standing for truth and principle as he is about “beating Hillary,” many others might be encouraged to do the same - and we preachers might actually be able to have a positive impact upon the direction of our country. As it is, our Christian “leaders” are not only not helping to lead our nation out of its current mess, they are actually contributing to the problem, as Dr. Jones’ endorsement of Mitt Romney illustrates.
    
    Furthermore, what is Dr. Bob going to say to the students and graduates of Bob Jones University? How can he justify all the years of “separation” preaching that BJU is known for? Where is his consistency? How can he now turn around and convince his students that all those Christian ‘standards” regarding the fellowship of light with darkness, reproving evil, contending for the faith, etc., apply only to areas outside politics? Obviously, BJU students now know that when it comes to politics, we can cast all those principles aside. It makes one wonder what other areas of the Christian life are exempt from Biblical principles. Maybe our business life? But that’s a subject for another day.
    
    I believe Dr. Bob’s grandfather must be turning over in his grave. I don't know how many times I have heard the “big” fundamentalist preachers quote Dr. Bob Jones, Sr. as saying, “Do right if the stars fall! ”
    Unashamed KJV, Kick the Pope Protestant with Baptist tendencies

  2. #2
    Master of Fundamentalism
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    Default

    This is not the first time that Dr Bob Jones III has forayed into politics and delineated pragmatism, shifting positions, and contradictory statements. On the morning after the 2004 election, Bob Jones III, posted this letter addressed to President Bush on the school’s Web site indicating his wholehearted acceptance of Bush’s salvation:

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    In your re-election, God has graciously granted America-though she doesn’t deserve it-a reprieve from the agenda of paganism. You have been given a mandate. We the people expect your voice to be like the clear and certain sound of a trumpet. Because you seek the Lord daily, we who know the Lord will follow that kind of voice eagerly .
    However, George Bush has in an exclusive interview with ABC News' Charles Gibson, shown a perverted view of salvation of “another gospel” that both Christians and Muslims worship the same God,

    Code:
    “I think we do. We have different routes of getting to the Almighty,” Bush said. “But I want you to understand, I want your listeners to understand, I don’t get to get decide who goes to heaven. The Almighty God decides who goes to heaven and I am on my personal walk,” he said.
    In another interview with Arabic television posted on the White House website , Bush reveals his pluralistic and universalistic view of God,

    Code:
    Well, first of all, I believe in an Almighty God, and I believe that all the world, whether they be Muslim, Christian, or any other religion, prays to the same God…. I believe there is a universal God. I believe the God that the Muslim prays to is the same God that I pray to. After all, we all came from Abraham. I believe in that universality.
    In November 2003, Bush sent a letter of congratulations to a denomination founded by homosexual activists that performs more than 6,000 same-sex “weddings” each year. It was reported,

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    The president wrote to the founding congregation in Los Angeles of the Metropolitan Community Churches, led by leading homosexual activist Rev. Troy D. Perry, on the occasion of its 35th anniversary. “By encouraging the celebration of faith and sharing of God's love and boundless mercy, churches like yours put hope in people’s hearts and a sense of purpose in their lives,” Bush said in his Oct. 14 missive. “This milestone provides an opportunity to reflect on your years of service and to rejoice in God’s faithfulness to your congregation. ”
    Prominent Fundamentalist writer, David Cloud commented,

    Code:
    From this, it is obvious that President Bush does not believe the Bible, which states plainly that sinners must repent before they can be saved. The MCC claims that God accepts their homosexuality as natural and that they do not have to repent of it. They are also on a campaign to change America’s laws to allow homosexual marriage.
    To delineate how far BJU has moved from traditional Biblical separation, a quick glance into the past is revealing. The 1981 resolutions of the largest Fundamental church grouping, the Fundamental Baptist Fellowship, which was signed by James Singleton, Chairman and the President Dr. Rod Bell, state very clearly the dangers of unbiblical unions with unbelievers in politics,

    Code:
    The FBF believes that government as ordained by God for the purpose of protecting the innocent and punishing the guilty, that good government is the will of God, and the Christians have a responsibility to be active in governmental matters as the salt of the earth, but continues to view with alarm movements such as the Moral Majority which while disclaiming to be religious confuses the fundamentals of the faith in the minds of the general public by bringing together Catholics, Jews, liberal Protestants, Mormons and Bible believers in a quasi-political union, we believe that the saving of America's morals is a mere cosmetic treatment of the deeper problem of sin; of correcting the nation's morals gives the false impression that America's ills would be solved if her morality were reformed; that moral reformation is not the mission of the churches, but, instead, the preaching of the saving grace of Christ which takes care of man's sin problem by which man's morals become correct; we, therefore, repudiate the false impression and the ecumenical union being promoted by the Moral Majority as unscriptural and therefore unworthy of consideration and cooperation by Bible-believing people.
    If BJU and others ignore this Scriptural position, they will run into grave dangers. In 2 Chronicles 20:35-37, the godly King of Judah, Jehoshaphat, who weakened in his separation as he got older, joined himself with the wicked King of Israel, Ahaziah to make ships for “commercial”’ and “political” reasons. This combined fleet was built to secure a free passage through Israel, for the vessels were to be conveyed across the Isthmus of Suez, and to sail to the west of Europe from one of the ports of Palestine on the Mediterranean. God sent a prophet, Eliezer, to denounce this unholy alliance and he foretold, as divine judgment, the total wreck of the whole fleet. The consequence was, that the ships built at the joint expense of the two kings were destroyed by the Lord.

    Jehoshaphat had aligned himself for political expedience with, as the great Reformed Baptist Scholar, John Gill comments, “whom he ought to have had no fellowship, even in civil things, it being both a countenancing him, and exposing himself and people to danger.” We are living in the crisis hour of the great shakings and the final separations of the wheat and the chaff, as God reveals the true reality of the hearts of His people. For, as Dr. Bob Jones Sr. the founder of the University once warned, “A man’s character is not formed in the moment of crisis, it is revealed.” Churches, denominations, colleges and people are changing in ways that is astounding even the world, let alone the true remnant.

    Jeremiah issued a pertinent warning to the “Holy City” of Jerusalem that trusted in their illustrious history of orthodoxy and the splendour of their temple,

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    For among my people are found wicked men: they lay wait, as he that setteth snares; they set a trap, they catch men… They are waxen fat, they shine: yea, they overpass the deeds of the wicked: they judge not the cause, the cause of the fatherless, yet they prosper; and the right of the needy do they not judge. (Jer 5:26, 28).
    The Bible also has much to say about the devastating effects of blessing the wicked,

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    He that saith unto the wicked, Thou art righteous; him shall the people curse, nations shall abhor him (Pro 24:24).
    May we all take note of the dangers of political compromise in this age when satan is seeking “if it were possible,” to “deceive the very elect,” as “the wicked watcheth the righetous, and seeketh to slay him.”

    http://www.ivanfoster.org/article.as.../2007&seq=1039
    Unashamed KJV, Kick the Pope Protestant with Baptist tendencies

  3. #3
    Master of Fundamentalism
    Join Date
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    Default

    As soon as you quoted David Cloud as a source you lost all credibility.

  4. #4
    Master of Fundamentalism
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    Default

    Oh, brother! Looks like we've got us another one! Call the exterminator!!

  5. #5
    Like It, Love it, Gotta Have It
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    Default

    This has been posted on other websites

    The Author was identified as "An Observant American."
    "When God has drawn a line of distinction, we should not attempt to cross that line. The true Negro does not want integration."--Jerry Falwell

  6. #6
    Fundamental Thinker
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    Default

    Oh great, here we go again. Where do these people come from?
    " 'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." Abe Lincoln

  7. #7
    Fundamental Thinker
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    Cool

    Dr. BJ3 said:

    "We the people expect your voice to be like the clear and certain sound of a trumpet. "

    MIKEYS dynamic equivalent KJV only tr approved ifbc authorized short whitewalled haired all hail the mini pope baby interpretation:

    President Bush we the people of Bob Jones University expect your voice to be like the clear and certain sound of a trumpet , as long as that trumpet does not sound anything like the beautiful Holy Spirit filled sound of Dr. MIKEY Schmidt's Christian JAZZ music.
    MIKEY Schmidt a.k.a. Dr. Michael Schmidt
    Not perfect, just forgiven by grace thru faith in Jesus.
    Please listen to the samples of my music at:
    www.myspace.com/thetrumpetofthelord
    Please book me to minister to your church.
    http://www.trumpetofthelord.com/Mike...20Slinger1.jpg

  8. #8
    Fundamental Thinker
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    Aug 2007
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tenneseetrumpet View Post
    Dr. BJ3 said:

    "We the people expect your voice to be like the clear and certain sound of a trumpet. "

    MIKEYS dynamic equivalent KJV only tr approved ifbc authorized short whitewalled haired all hail the mini pope baby interpretation:

    President Bush we the people of Bob Jones University expect your voice to be like the clear and certain sound of a trumpet , as long as that trumpet does not sound anything like the beautiful Holy Spirit filled sound of Dr. MIKEY Schmidt's Christian JAZZ music.
    Not only is he a total nut. Mikey is also a thread hijacker!!!!
    " 'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." Abe Lincoln

  9. #9
    Fundamental Thinker
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin View Post
    Not only is he a total nut. Mikey is also a thread hijacker!!!!
    Afraid not Merlin, my comment was about a quote that was in the thread. good try though Merlin.

    MIKEY
    MIKEY Schmidt a.k.a. Dr. Michael Schmidt
    Not perfect, just forgiven by grace thru faith in Jesus.
    Please listen to the samples of my music at:
    www.myspace.com/thetrumpetofthelord
    Please book me to minister to your church.
    http://www.trumpetofthelord.com/Mike...20Slinger1.jpg

  10. #10
    Fundamental Thinker
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,263

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tenneseetrumpet View Post
    Afraid not Merlin, my comment was about a quote that was in the thread. good try though Merlin.

    MIKEY
    Just call them like I see them.

    And yes Mikey, bringing up your jazz trash is hijacking!!!!

    Reality check!!!!
    " 'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." Abe Lincoln

 

 
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