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      #1  
    Old 11-02-2009, 11:57 AM
    Coverdale Coverdale is online now
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    Question Is this inconsistency in some Cambridge KJV's?


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    Is there an inconsistency in some Cambridge editions at these two verses?
    Why did most 1800's Cambridge editions not follow the 1769 Oxford at Joshua 4:5 when most 1800's Cambridge editions did follow the 1769 Oxford at Joshua 3:12? Did some Cambridge printers after 1833 overlook the change at Joshua 4:5?


    Joshua 3:12
    take ye (1715, 1758, 1762, 1768, 1770, 1777, 1791, 1792, 1804 Oxford) [1637, 1762, 1768, 1769, 1773, 1817, 1873, 2005 Cambridge] {1611 London}
    take you (1769 Oxford, SRB Oxford, Oxford Classic) [CSTE, DKJB]

    Joshua 4:5
    take ye (1715, 1758, 1762, 1768, 1770, 1777, 1782, 1804 Oxford, Oxford Classic) [1637, 1762, 1768, 1769, 1773, 1817, 1837, 1844, 1869, 1873, 1887, 2005 Cambridge, CSTE, DKJB] {1611 London}
    take you (1769 Oxford, SRB Oxford) [1824, 1833 Cambridge] {1824 London}
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      #2  
    Old 11-03-2009, 12:35 AM
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    bibleprotector bibleprotector is offline
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    Default

    There is a whole list of editions which have the variation, and those which do not. This is really not a “Cambridge” issue.

    As anyone should know who has looked into this area, the Cambridge editions have themselves been the primary line or focus of the editorial purification work from 1629 to the present. Thus, numerous differences will be manifest.

    The PCE (and other editors') choice would have been deliberate, in that the usage of "ye" and "you" is covered by the rule of subject and object. Thus, the Israelites were to take of themselves men unto "you", and that those men taken of "you" were to take up the stones. Thus, the chose people would be the subject, and the Israelites as a whole the object, the "you".

    As we recognise there has been a standardisation of the language, we can understand how sometimes "ye" (1611) is now "you", and vice versa. This may be to do with printing errors in 1611, or to do with the lack of standardisation. All in all, the intended meaning of 1611, which is that of the actual Scripture, is conveyed accurately today in the PCE.
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    Last edited by bibleprotector; 11-03-2009 at 12:40 AM.
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      #3  
    Old 11-04-2009, 06:56 AM
    Steven Avery Steven Avery is offline
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    Default take ye up every man of you a stone upon his shoulder


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    Hi Folks,

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bibleprotector
    the usage of "ye" and "you" is covered by the rule of subject and object. Thus, the Israelites were to take of themselves men unto "you",
    objective case

    Joshua 3:11-12
    Behold, the ark of the covenant of the Lord of all the earth
    passeth over before you into Jordan.
    Now therefore take you twelve men out of the tribes of Israel,
    out of every tribe a man.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bibleprotector
    and that those men taken of "you" were to take up the stones. Thus, the chose people would be the subject, and the Israelites as a whole the object, the "you".
    subject (nominative)

    Joshua 4:4-5
    Then Joshua called the twelve men,
    whom he had prepared of the children of Israel,
    out of every tribe a man:
    And Joshua said unto them,
    Pass over before the ark of the LORD your God into the midst of Jordan,
    and take ye up every man of you a stone upon his shoulder,
    according unto the number of the tribes of the children of Israel:


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bibleprotector
    As we recognise there has been a standardisation of the language, we can understand how sometimes "ye" (1611) is now "you", and vice versa. This may be to do with printing errors in 1611, or to do with the lack of standardisation. All in all, the intended meaning of 1611, which is that of the actual Scripture, is conveyed accurately today in the PCE.
    And this is another area where simply comparing editions is of little interest, consistency will be within the PCE. As Bibleprotector points out, you can even have some language changes after 1611 that modified the presentation, which could be incorporated in editions over time.

    Here are a few articles that include the grammar involved, along with other helpful discussion.

    Thee and Thou - John Reaves Sr. (with chart)
    http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0513.htm

    Thee and Thou: Not Just for Quakers - Bill Fortenberry
    http://increasinglearning.com/Docume...%20Quakers.pdf

    Why "Thou" and "Ye" are more accurate and should be retained - Will Kinney
    http://www.sovereignword.org/index.p...ld-be-retained

    Thee, Thou, and Ye - Richard Bacon (1995)
    http://av1611.com/kjbp/articles/bacon-theethou.html

    Do We Need Thee and Thou? Thy and Thine?
    http://www.letgodbetrue.com/bible/sc...e-and-thou.htm

    Why The English Of The King James Bible Is Better Than That Of All The Modern Versions - James H. Sightler (2003)
    http://www.bible1611.com/EndofAgeMes...mesBible02.htm

    Thou or You - Alfred Revell (from The Old's Better)
    http://www.holybible.com/pdfs/thouoryou.pdf

    Thou, Thee, Thine, & Ye - The Language of the King James Bible - Gail Riplinger (1998)
    http://userpages.bright.net/~bkrajci...heethineye.htm

    Where has "Thou" Gone? - Religion and Society Report (2004)
    http://www.profam.org/pub/rs/rs_2104.htm#WHERE

    Shalom,
    Steven

    Last edited by Steven Avery; 11-04-2009 at 07:11 AM.
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