Latest Neal Scandal

yluciano · #1 01-06-2009, 11:14 PM

I am not sure where to post this. I thought here would be the best place since the majority of the posts are concerning the Neals.

Does anyone find anything weird with a church ordaining a man to the ministry and a year later excommunicating him from the church for no moral or biblical violation?

Well, this is exactly what happened to the Spanish Pastor at Oasis Baptist church. I thought people should hear it from the horse's mouth before the lies and distortions begin.

More details later. I have letters and audio recordings. I wish I would have listened to the check on my spirit and recorded all the sessions, but one, a Christian, wants to trust. Unfortunately, by the time he figures out that his trust has been violated, it is too late.

Until then, I am curious to hear everyone's immediate opinion of what does it say about one's discernment and perception of a pastoral ordination if the leadership then turns and excommunicate him with not even a moral or biblical accusation?

Allow me to give you my evaluation in brief: Such leadership either has a very low view of the holiness of the ordination process or he/they simply have no idea of who or what qualifies one for the ministry. Of course, this is a very kind evaluation of the problem with only the information provided.

yluciano · #2 01-06-2009, 11:21 PM

?

CertainSound · #3 01-07-2009, 09:14 AM

In some circles ordaining a man is buying his loyalty just like conferring an honorary doctorate is purchasing cheap advertising of your kawledge to the victim's circle of friends.

FunNoMore · #4 01-08-2009, 12:01 PM

OK, you've got some attention. What happened?

cpem2007 · #5 01-08-2009, 12:50 PM

I'm Intrigued can you please continue with what happened?

yluciano · #6 01-09-2009, 08:40 PM

Deleted

yluciano · #7 01-09-2009, 08:43 PM

Deleted

yluciano · #8 01-09-2009, 08:44 PM

Sixthly, he accuses the Spanish ministry of having only a couple of people 100% involved. This of course is far from the truth. When we had our own specialized functions in the Spanish ministry, almost everyone collaborated. In the regular week to week church services, we did not have as much. But definitely not to the degree that Pastor Neal wanted to believe. There was several factors to this, one of which the Spanish ministry signing up for things, but never receiving a call from the ministry leader.

Seventh observation is notice the whole “behind each other” idea. This is where everything breaks down. This whole strategic plan was a one-way street for him. The fact is, that I had no involvement whatsoever in the process. I had no clue what was on his mind throughout this transition. As one can see from the next data that I will provide, I kept getting pushed and pushed away. Ultimately, the deacons even refuse to meet with me concerning whether or not they should commission me.

Eighth observation is his statement about not desiring us to part ways carnally, not speaking to each other. If that is the case, why did I get excommunicated for no Biblical reason? As one will see from my recording that I will post later, the best reason Pastor Neal and the deacons could muster up is that my resignation letter sounded too prideful. Even if that is true, I cannot deny that my heart fills with pride at times, it is no reason to say that you and your family are no longer welcomed here.

Ninth observation is when he states “I will be willing to do that” referring to commissioning me. Of course he gives some stipulations, which are more than reasonable. But this is key to note, mainly because on the next recording I will provide (my meeting with him and the deacons when they finally excommunicate me) he states that he never agreed on I starting a new ministry. It was a dilemma of my word against his. Of course, everyone is going to take his word over mine. Unfortunately, he had (and still has) no idea that I recorded him stating so. This was not the only time which he did state so by the way. He even stated his support in front of the Spanish ministry! Also, the week when he suddenly asked me to formally step down from my pastoral position (prohibiting me from saying farewell to anyone) he gave me the go ahead to start my own church. Listen, I have always believed in spiritual authority. If my pastor, no matter how wrong he may be, prohibited me from starting a church, I would not do so. The argument could be made that as an ordained man of God myself, that I do not have to heed such a prohibition; nevertheless, that is the way I have been programmed to think. And in spite of all the arguments, I believe that that is the wisest way to think.

The tenth observation is the reference to the meeting with my wife. We did have that meeting and it went very well. This was another meeting where he gave his approval of the leading of God in our hearts to start another ministry.

The eleventh observation is his reference to although he does not want to be crippled with not being able to have a functioning Spanish ministry; he is not going to horde them for himself. This unfortunately proves not to be so. Like is typical with fundamental churches, the Spanish ministry, by majority testimony, received only eyebrow beatings with rhetoric used to intimidate them into staying. It’s the whole mentality of if you stay you are right with God, but if you want to go to Pastor Luciano’s church then you are in rebellion. It came abundantly clear by the time I was excommunicated that the only thing with which he would be happy is if no one leaves. People gave it a couple of months, and still do not feel comfortable there (mainly because they currently have no Spanish pastor). Even as I type this people who I know for certain are not happy with the situation are still there trying to discern God’s will for their families. By the way, they are still there because I counseled them to stay there. I have done everything within reason to prevent Satan from planting in the hearts of the leadership that I am robbing the sheep. If I wanted to, in one word, everyone would’ve gotten up and left Oasis to come with me. But I doubt that would have glorified God. Yet that does not satisfy Pastor Neal. He wants me to force them to stay at Oasis. That I cannot do. Some left and went to other ministries. Some within the last month finally felt led to come with me. Some still are at Oasis.

Twelfth observation is his statement of putting up defensive walls because he did not know how I would react to his announcement. I think that is the reason why at the end the “transition” was no transition at all but a sour separation (as you will see on his part, not mine). Throughout all the months, he refused to place down his walls of defense. Even the very act of excommunication is a defensive political tactic and reveals the insincere intentions of his heart. I have never given him any reason for him to have such a disposition towards me before, during, nor after this whole process.

Thirteenth observation is his statement about not wanting any weirdo feelings between his ministry and the potential ministry that I would have, but rather an open unity between both ministries. Since he agrees with me in this issue, I do not understand why he took so offense when I kindly expressed the existence of these “weirdo” feelings. Instead of wanting to understand, he kicks me out!

Fourteenth observation: notice his constant reference to “you guys determine that” referring to the spirit of the relationship. Does he think that he bears no spiritual responsibility to the health of the relationship between us and him? Now I realize that what he was implying is “Let me do what I want how I want it done. Do not object or question my decision. Simply do what I say and everything would be ok.” Apparently he made that ultimate statement when he reacted the way he did to my resignation letter which I wrote three months after he asked me to step down.

Fifteenth observation: his reference to a strategy. There was no strategy at all for commencing a Spanish ministry. As already stated, there was no communication on his part towards me, no meeting to form a strategy, his defensive walls were up even until the end, he already had me out even before our first initial meeting, and basically it was a one way street.

Well, I think that covers everything. I am too tired to type anymore.

CertainSound · #9 01-10-2009, 08:31 AM

My advice is get away as quickly as possible, stop looking up to them as heros and providers, don't try to make a name for your self or them. Make the Lord more important than anything. Just serve Jesus. Jesus is the real boss not a Neal, Hyles, Schaap, Gray.

Don't let this thing eat away at you (or your wife). There are lots of churches that need a guy who can pastor a spanish ministry. There are lots of towns in the USA that need an IFB spanish speaking church. The mission field has come to us. Don't let bitterness toward the guy you trusted cause you to lose your joy in the Lord or be the reason for sitting on the side lines.

Have you been mulling this over since August? It was wasted time and bitterness.

yluciano · #10 01-10-2009, 10:53 AM

I think that may be the problem. I never did look to any of these men nor anyone in particular as a hero. Trust me, I am months past the season of discouragement. I and my wife are definitely past this and are excited with what the Lord has in front of us. After all is said and done, I believe the hand of God was in all of this. The will of God and the wisdom of God is a wonderful thing! He knew that the only way he can push me out to step out in faith and start a church is through something like this. Once I did, I can honestly say that I've never been happier.

I appreciate your concern and word of encouragement. I think I stated the purpose for posting this information. Nevertheless, thank you.