Flake:

Anybody that is still at LBT after Bob Gray has publicly insulted his wife, his children, and made that man himself to cower in the presence of his family.

Are you referring to Jim Fleck? He allowed gray to verbally abuse his family?

Are you referring to Jim Fleck? He allowed gray to verbally abuse his family?

I believe he was defining the word Flake.(note the colon after the word flake.

OH! thanks for the clarification

OH! thanks for the clarification

Have a good 'un.

He allowed gray to verbally abuse his family?

Sorry, but that statement is just tooo funnnnyyy! :rolleyes:

Serioulsy, no one intentionally ALLOWS it, it just happens (with the whole church screaming AMEN). And when it does, the abused person/family doesn't have a pulpit to stand behind and defend themselves or correct any incorrect information. Most of the time, they are expected to be grateful that the DR. Gray cared enough to take the time to "correct" them - publicly or not!

Yes, Dr. Gray did publically humiliate the Fleck family. Dr. Gray called Mrs. Fleck fat, and yes he used the word "fat" among other choice words, such as "heifer", "rebellious", "jezebel", etc.
This was all over the fact that Mrs. Fleck was taking her girls and some of their friends to a youth conference in Hammond.
It was awful, I'll never forget it.

Bob ought to weigh the cows in his own pen.

Yes, Dr. Gray did publically humiliate the Fleck family. Dr. Gray called Mrs. Fleck fat, and yes he used the word "fat" among other choice words, such as "heifer", "rebellious", "jezebel", etc.
This was all over the fact that Mrs. Fleck was taking her girls and some of their friends to a youth conference in Hammond.
It was awful, I'll never forget it.

Just when I think I've heard everything!:(

I shared a cabin with Mrs. Fleck and her girls at summer camp one year when we were both counselors (this was before the Flecks moved to Longview). A sweet Christian lady for sure. To think that she had to endure that kind of treatment from Bob Gray makes my blood boil.:mad:

You have no idea what this dear lady endured in the preaching. I do know that the entire family went into the Drs. office to tell him to stop and to let him know they were leaving. He, of course, says "I never called your name!, I could have been talking to anyone." This is his standard excuse, he never has the nerve to tell you it WAS you he was talking about.
In this meeting with the Fleck family, he called Bro. Bowen and Bro. Zinn into the office to ask them if they felt he was picking on them and calling them names, you know what? they both said "yes!" Still, never an apology, never once did he admit his wrongdoing, even though his very own staff told him he was wrong. He let them leave and preached from the pulpit that he was "cleaning house".

when did this public insult take place? This is unethical, even for a preacher. Don't make me quote scripture!

this would have taken place a couple of years ago. I know it was after their son Jeff graduated from LCA which was in 1999. Mrs. Fleck has suffered, physcially and mentally from the all out personal attack on her and her family.

Hey movin'

I didn't know the Flecks well, but I did like Bro. Fleck's ministry to US churches. You comment made me curious; how did Mrs. Fleck suffer physically from Dr. Gray preaching at her? I can see how she was upset and mentally and especially emotionally hurt, but how was she hurt physically?

Kevin

Well lets see, she suffered and continues to suffer from Diabetes. Stress causes the blood sugars to go out of control and stress is a mild word for what they endured during that particular service. After several services of the Flecks being attacked from the pulpit, she suffered from Post-traumatic stress disorder, low self esteem (I mean how would Lois feel if her Preacher called her fat cow from the pulpit?), anxiety, phobic that other people were talking about her too, lonliness (from those who claimed to be her friends would not longer talk to her) This just to name a few. Although I was not pummeled as severly has Mrs. Fleck, I too suffered from the same symptoms when I finally left.

You have no idea what this dear lady endured in the preaching. I do know that the entire family went into the Drs. office to tell him to stop and to let him know they were leaving. He, of course, says "I never called your name!, I could have been talking to anyone." This is his standard excuse, he never has the nerve to tell you it WAS you he was talking about.In this meeting with the Fleck family, he called Bro. Bowen and Bro. Zinn into the office to ask them if they felt he was picking on them and calling them names, you know what? they both said "yes!" Still, never an apology, never once did he admit his wrongdoing, even though his very own staff told him he was wrong. He let them leave and preached from the pulpit that he was "cleaning house".


This is a true story. He spent about 15 minutes in one of his wednesday night tirades on me, specifically, even saying that I would have to quit my job or quit the kollege. Of course he never said my name, but I was the ONLY kollege victim who fit the description. (and everyone at LBT knew it) When I confronted him in his office, Bob said, "I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about another student". Not only is he a liar, but he's a coward, too. Get him out from behind the pulpit and take the microphone out of his face and remove the cacophony of "amens" from his myrmidons and you see a mean little bully who will cower before real men.

I've got more "man-hood" in my little finger than he has in his whole body. :cool:

Get him out from behind the pulpit and take the microphone out of his face and remove the cacophony of "amens" from his myrmidons and you see a mean little bully who will cower before real men.


I've always thought that too. Bully... that's the description alright.

MLH- ever been in the "inner sanctuary" when he pushed you against the wall................ or screamed at you so close to your face you could smell his Binaca breath............. or pointed his finger in your chest so hard it left a bruise?????????? Yes, he won't do that in the hallway....

Wow, what a psycho! :eek:

hey stillmarried,

dr. gray left a bruise on my chest the very first time i heard him preach. my parents weren't too happy, but they got over it. :-)

Kevin

Hi Keev-
Was that a random, pick-up the college student on the front row thing, or an inner office thing? Have you been in the inner office to see it happen? Does the Bible say anything about the pastor having the right to use physical means on his people to get a message across? Just curious.

Anyone know where the Flecks are now? I would like to contact Jim to see how hes doing. Havn't seen him in about 8 years. Never Mind I found another link.

Hi Keev-
Was that a random, pick-up the college student on the front row thing, or an inner office thing? Have you been in the inner office to see it happen? Does the Bible say anything about the pastor having the right to use physical means on his people to get a message across? Just curious.

No, it was in NC at the church Rick Gaston pastored at the time. It was in 1992 I think. I made the mistake of sitting on the front row and he was telling me that he was going to call my pastor to see if I had anyone in the tank the following Sunday. He was poking my chest so hard I couldn't speak. I was trying to say yes sir or amen or something and I couldn't get it out because he was poking so hard. When I got home there was a bruise. My dad was so mad he was going to confront Dr. Gray about it the following night. This was the very first time I had ever heard Dr. Gray in person and my parents had never heard him. I talked him out of being mad and they went to hear him the next night. That second night was when he told me I had no business at a nondenominational school (Bro. Gaston told him I was headed to PCC) and he told me I should go to HAC or TBC. I left for PCC about 3 months later. ;)

I have been in the inner sanctum and was crying before I left. He didn't bruise me in there, but obviously, I have had the physical abuse experience. I didn't mind it, but I just didn't think about it too much. I liked him so much, I didn't really worry about it. I loved to tell that story at PCC. When I went to the inner sanctum it was over something that was blown out of proportion by a very young teen who had it out for me - you would know her stillmarried, and some others of you might remember her too - anyway, it was all taken care of and ended up being alright in the end. Learned a couple very valuable lessons that day. :)

I did hear some great stories of the inner sanctum though from the greats like Luis and Vern. What a waste of a good Cross pen! Ooch!

Kevin

Didn't he go to HAC back in the late 70's early 80's?